Eagles Nest Line To Be Cut Back

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

No one is trying to ginni-fi Eagles Nest, not enough drunks or a place for a good campground. Who gets to decide who the top folks in the sport are? Is there some sort of scorecard that I am not aware of, not that I particularly care, or are they just a legend in their own mind.

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The instructors that dole out full cave full mix and dpv cards. There's no where left to go after that. Maxed out.

A few thoughts:

1. I am a legend in no one's mind, not that the accusation was leveled.

2. Cutting the line back probably won't matter. The recent two fatalities would not have been swayed by running a jump.

3. Cutting the line, to non cave divers, might seem like a measure of avoidance for future accidents. Can't say, but it can't hurt.

3. Cutting is probably equal in conceptual moronity but much different in applicable versus closing.

4. Guide system idea is undesirable.

5. Quite a few people have strong opinions on this section of cave but few have any first hand knowledge or the experience to see it. Or interest, either. And it's hard to argue so vehemently without that support... And be seen as credible.

At least in most worlds that's the case but it seems that cave diving is immune to such logic once it takes place on the internet.

Bob

Clarification: If you are not experienced, trained, interested, close enough, comfortable enough to do this exact dive then you CANNOT possibly understand what people feel who are. You can try, but it's not possible.

I'm saying its tough to know how others think about this type of dive when you have none of the prerequisites to do this dive: the years upon years of experience that build up to a 6 six hour dive, let alone longer; the training; the equipment and knowledge of its use; the repercussions on your body to these exposures; the situational response experience to react to being stuck at 260 feet for 40 minutes.

Etc.

bob

If the CDS now wants to take on responsibility for improving the safety of the lines in Eagle's Nest, how about tidying up some of the mess in the Abyss Room? That has more potential to prevent a future accident than cutting out 10 feet of straight line between the end of the gold line and the Revelation Space restriction.

What mandate does the CDS have in this matter, especially as (expert) opinion is divided on the subject?

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Originally Posted by floridabob

A few thoughts: 1. I am a legend in no one's mind, not that the accusation was leveled.

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Sure you are, just for the yellow hat alone.

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Originally Posted by floridabob

Clarification: If you are not experienced, trained, interested, close enough, comfortable enough to do this exact dive then you CANNOT possibly understand what people feel who are. You can try, but it's not possible.

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I cannot identify with people that have been lobotomized either, doesn't mean I want to go and try it. And I would be willing to bet that by the time you have spent 800 minutes on a dive, most of you feel cold.

Nope, not cold.

Proves my theory though, thanks.

And it was their pre-dive mindset I was referencing.

As for the Abyss room line, great point. It's quite unique.

I look lobotomized wearing that helmet! Or like I should be.

Bob

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Originally Posted by apitkin

What mandate does the CDS have in this matter,

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Since the CDS mandates are safety, education and conservation,I would assume their safety role would be engaged. I am sure the question is what gives the CDS authority to become involved? Since the CDS and NACD played a primary role in reopening the site in 2003, and recently when there was a threat of closure they played a primary role in helping to keep it open. I am sure the CDS is exercising one of its less mandated roles of landowner relations. No matter what we as a community think, the CDS has good history of interacting with government agencies, and is looked upon by these agencies as who they should approach we needing to interact with cave divers. Good, bad ,or indifferent I am just rehashing cave diving history.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

Since the CDS mandates are safety, education and conservation,I would assume their safety role would be engaged. I am sure the question is what gives the CDS authority to become involved? Since the CDS and NACD played a primary role in reopening the site in 2003, and recently when there was a threat of closure they played a primary role in helping to keep it open. I am sure the CDS is exercising one of its less mandated roles of landowner relations. No matter what we as a community think, the CDS has good history of interacting with government agencies, and is looked upon by these agencies as who they should approach we needing to interact with cave divers. Good, bad ,or indifferent I am just rehashing cave diving history.

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Fair enough.

The most productive thing to do would be to make a public announcement (already done I think), get a good videographer like Becky or Curt or someone to video the momentous cutting-back in beautifully-lit 4K broadcast-quality video, then release the video and a press statement to the effect that there has been a major improvement in the lines in the cave such that a fatality like this one will never happen again.

At least that may help to counter some of the calls out there to close the cave.

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Originally Posted by apitkin

Fair enough.

The most productive thing to do would be to make a public announcement (already done I think), get a good videographer like Becky or Curt or someone to video the momentous cutting-back in beautifully-lit 4K broadcast-quality video, then release the video and a press statement to the effect that there has been a major improvement in the lines in the cave such that a fatality like this one will never happen again.

At least that may help to counter some of the calls out there to close the cave.

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Bob