Hart Springs - Dec. 20/14

Ok dude

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Originally Posted by Jerry

Attachment 11827
A swallet or swallow hole is a generally misused term referring to a karst feature that takes in surface water. They would most properly be called a "sinking stream". A similar feature called an estevelle can go both ways (syphon or spring) depending on hydrostatic conditions. I have attached(I hope) an image of the Alapaha River Sink, which could be called a swallet or properly a sinking stream. The Santa Fe river at O'Leno, Mill Creek (aka Alachua Sink has an associated swallet behind the sink), Rose Creek Swallet, are all karst features that take in surface water. They DO NOT reverse/change flow direction.

Indian and the other examples just listed by others are examples of offset sinks; just like Mill Creek. Mill Creek has a tunnel roughly 200 ft long to the u/s-d/s T. It can reverse.

It isn't semantics. Swallets don't reverse; period.

Jerry

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You're trying REAL hard here. A swallet can take on surface water (obviously), it can STOP taking on surface water, and if conditions are right I've seen at least one have a slight springing discharge. You're attempting to apply your knowledge of a few sites universally to all sites.

For cave divers, we're concerned about the possibility of a sudden conditions change. You stated very early on that that can't happen, now you're trying to argue the definition of what is or is not a swallet (according to the dictionary it's just a hold in the ground to which a stream disappears into) and what 'reversed' means. Bottom line is that cave conditions can and do change dramatically depending on rainfall.

Also, lighten up, Francis.

Are you a professional geologist? I am. I hold an MS in geology so please don't attempt to tell me about geology. I am not reaching or applying limited knowledge. I have made the study of cave geology my primary focus since I started cave diving in 1989. You both listed offset sinks as swallets; didn't your cave instructor cover offset sinks?

Jerry

Ok bro. Caves don't suddenly reverse due to weather and all the swallets a I dive are offset sinks.

Feel better?

My cave instructor didn't cover offset sinks, swallets, or even evil alien cave creatures. Should I get a refund? LOL!

WJH

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Originally Posted by WJH

My cave instructor didn't cover offset sinks, swallets, or even evil alien cave creatures. Should I get a refund? LOL!

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The evil alien cave creatures are becoming increasingly common. You can tell them by the big corrugated hoses going right and left from their mouths, and the fact that they don't make any bubbles when they breathe. If that ain't unnatural, I don't know what is! :)

Here you go 💊 ... It's a chill pill. ;-)


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caves don't reverse suddenly everyone. it's perfectly safe to dive spring creek whenever you want or black hole in a rainstorm.
don't let your lying eyes confuse you. Jerry (and all his strawmen) here has a masters degree!

http://oi57.tinypic.com/16lz60y.jpg

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Originally Posted by LiteHedded

caves don't reverse suddenly everyone. it's perfectly safe to dive spring creek whenever you want or black hole in a rainstorm.
!

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I did a study with Georgia DNR and we installed temperature sensors in the cave at about 300ft intervals to a distance to 1200'. When the Flint River started to rise,the spring we were testing reversed. The sensors in this case didn't show a slow change of temperature from sensor to sensor with progressively deeper penetration,but it was similar to a toilet being flushed. Looking at the temperature data revealed this reversal happened through out the system in minutes. A couple years later I went out to dive the system when the river was high,and from the surface I witnessed a swirling vortex of river water syphoning inward. This system wasn't a low flow system like Peacock,but a higher flow system.