Did Edd save another one?

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Originally Posted by FW

Someone asked me if I had an idea why there are so many incidents on the millpond. This is what I responded back with:

Possibly the location. From what I gather, most of the divers with problems weren't "local". The Millpond is the closest dive site for anyone west, and north of it. That is a lot of real estate!

Since people are grouping all the caves in the area, then we would need to group from Peacock to Devil's Eye (the real name for that cave), to get a good comparison.

FWIW, I have had issues there too. That makes me think of another clue. JB usually pumps hard, and new divers only can get 1000' or so. That tends to make them look for side leads. Unlike the main passage, all the side leads are low and silty, and several accidents were in those passages. Once divers graduate to scooters, they can get farther, but they don't seem to progress gradually, which gets them into trouble.

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What about the fact that from what I understand the best map is the one on the back of a cave adventurers shirt? When I took a class with Edd one of the discussions we had was that JB has alot of jumps, some on the map and some on the map. One of the things he told us was that unlike a place like Ginnie where unmapped jumps are typically unmarked, many of the unmapped jumps are marked in the cave leading to confusion. That conversation was about 3 years ago, but I don't know that much has changed. Last year we were there and I asked about a particular jump (I have no remembrance of which one it was). I believe it was John gave us directions but the directions didn't match up with the map I was looking at. He said it just isn't on the map, so I don't know that things have changed. Maybe they have since I only get up that way once a year, but that may be a factor.

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Originally Posted by rddvet

What about the fact that from what I understand the best map is the one on the back of a cave adventurers shirt? When I took a class with Edd one of the discussions we had was that JB has alot of jumps, some on the map and some on the map. One of the things he told us was that unlike a place like Ginnie where unmapped jumps are typically unmarked, many of the unmapped jumps are marked in the cave leading to confusion. That conversation was about 3 years ago, but I don't know that much has changed. Last year we were there and I asked about a particular jump (I have no remembrance of which one it was). I believe it was John gave us directions but the directions didn't match up with the map I was looking at. He said it just isn't on the map, so I don't know that things have changed. Maybe they have since I only get up that way once a year, but that may be a factor.

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There is a lot of passage in many caves that isn't on a published map. The entire back sections of Devil's Eye, Madison, Manatee, Indian, etc. aren't on any published map. It is hard to keep up, especially in a cave that is still "going". If you tried to print new maps each time a new passage were surveyed, it would get expensive. It would be nice if it could all be done, and distributed, electronically, but...

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Originally Posted by FW

There is a lot of passage in many caves that isn't on a published map. The entire back sections of Devil's Eye, Madison, Manatee, Indian, etc. aren't on any published map. It is hard to keep up, especially in a cave that is still "going". If you tried to print new maps each time a new passage were surveyed, it would get expensive. It would be nice if it could all be done, and distributed, electronically, but...

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But I was under the impression that in a place like Ginnie many of those unmapped jumps (at least in the more easily accessible parts of the cave) were commonly hidden a little bit to not confuse when compared to the map, but in my conversation about JB at the shop, many of the unmapped jumps are clearly marked and visible from the gold line. I could be wrong though.

Sounds like a very good discussion that could be a separate thread... I'd like to know more about the history of mapping efforts in Florida caves- someone with experience contributing to the surveys should start this up, and perhaps the decisions behind publishing or not publishing all known passages.

I imagine a big part of Edd's effectiveness at these amazing rescues is that he has all the caves memorized so well - I hear he only uses his light so other divers know where he his!

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Originally Posted by rddvet

But I was under the impression that in a place like Ginnie many of those unmapped jumps (at least in the more easily accessible parts of the cave) were commonly hidden a little bit to not confuse when compared to the map, but in my conversation about JB at the shop, many of the unmapped jumps are clearly marked and visible from the gold line. I could be wrong though.

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You are right about both, and I agree, it is a problem.

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Originally Posted by Aotus

... I imagine a big part of Edd's effectiveness at these amazing rescues is that he has all the caves memorized so well - I hear he only uses his light so other divers know where he his!

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:-D

I only have a dozen or so dives in Ginnie and well over a hundred in JB. In my opinion the biggest difference between the two caves are the color of the caves. It is hard to see much in Ginnie compared to JB for me. I think this makes the smaller side passage in JB alot easier to see.

I think FW hit all the main points on the WHY JB question. I'm not as familiar with Ginnie but I think we counted over 21 lines in the first 500 feet of Jackson Blue. I remember my good friend trying to figure out some stuff further back in the cave with literally bags of color coded clothespins. Thank goodness for Edd and the C.A. Crew once again.

Lotta little tunnels in the first 500 feet of ginnie, but some aren't lined and many blow past the lined ones due to the color of the cave i suppose.

If you need a map to find you way out of a tunnel that has a line in it, I'm not sure cave diving is the best hobby....

Why mark all the jumps? Cave adventures have a sale on big line arrows and sharpies?




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Originally Posted by JahJahwarrior

If you need a map to find you way out of a tunnel that has a line in it, I'm not sure cave diving is the best hobby....

Why mark all the jumps?



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I just personally think that if you're not putting a jump on the map you should not make it obvious and especially not mark it. I thought the lost instructor/student issue was because of confusion based on what was marked on the map vs what was marked in the cave.