Mattachuk (sp?) 11-2-12

He said I didn't know what sacrifice was, so I said yes I do and explained to him that I have gone on multiple combat deployments. I am very proud of what I did, if people ask I will tell them.

p.s. mdax, RLTW!

Seems odd that people are so proud of being :blackbar2. It takes no effort, brains or courage, just a willingness to offend. I don't know of anyone whose opinion matters to me or that I respect, who prides themselves on something like that. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

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Originally Posted by jcook

Ah well, Matt didn't include the context of why I said that to him. I didn't want to point it out on the forum, since I would probably get banned for being "uncivil". But oh well.

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Then include the context.

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Originally Posted by jcook

He said anyone that served in combat shouldn't be helped at all and they haven't sacrificed anything, he said it was a job and I got paid. And because of that I have a baseless sense of entitlement for free stuff.

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Actually, here's the direct quotes.

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Originally Posted by Mat

...An hour from the caves? Nearest cave is a mile from my house, its about a 5 minute drive. Before I moved to FL, I was about 2 hours from the nearest caves, and thats when I found most of them. Did people tell me about them all? Nope, hardly any of them actually. I did my research and went out looking. I found lots of stuff that ain't divable, found lots of dead ends; but I also found off the beaten path caves and even some completely virgin caves. Pay your dues, just like everyone else, you don't get the easy street because you live 5 hours away - THATS bull****. The fact that you think you are entitled to all the information that others had to work for is ALSO bull****. Is it easier for me to find stuff since I'm close? Yes! I moved closer to make it even easier. If its that important to you, I suggest you do the same, it certainly gives you more time...

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Originally Posted by Jordan

Oh and in regards to entitlement, I VOLUNTEERED for service during wartime. I served on 4 combat deployment, didn't see your fat *** over there.

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Originally Posted by Mat

Its a job, you got paid :P

...and it doesn't entitle you to a life without having to do any more work when you get back.

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I've got nothing to hide. <--note the period.

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Originally Posted by mdax

Matt, do you actually believe that crap about combat being a job and not a sacrifice? I know some folks have pretty radicalized opinions and it'd be good to know if you feel that way in order to properly weight your future posts.

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I respect active servicemen and veterans. Read the quotes and understand the context. He says he volunteered for the military and is therefor entitled to whatever he wants without having to do any of his own footwork now that he's back. People who sign up for the military get paid, get benefits, get my respect, and even a free meal here and there. When they lean on that past service for some sort of entitlement, you lose my respect. If you joined the military for some sort of entitlements, you didn't do it for noble reasoning, you did it for a paycheck.

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Originally Posted by a64pilot

OK, I'm a little worried about this post as it can / will easily be misread. :blackbar he is real hard to take. He says what's on his mind, and to heck with the consequences. He also is a little quick to comment, I think sometimes even he thinks he was just maybe a little too brunt in what the says.
I think Matt will be OK with me saying this as I'm :blackbarmyself. My Avatar isn't a Donkey stuck in a well, it's :blackbar. I don't have many friends because of this, I have to bite my tongue often to stay out of trouble.
Don't ask Matt what he thinks about something unless your prepared to hear his complete opinion, he is a very biased person, if he likes something or someone, he will bend over backwards for them, if he doesn't like them, then he wouldn't waste bodily fluids on them if they were on fire. I'm the same way.
I do not think Matt really meant the comment about Combat Vets, because he has no idea what he is talking about, I think maybe he like most think of the bums on the side of the road with their hand out pretending to be Combat Vets, in order to get a free ride.
What he and others don't realize is most Combat Vets don't walk around professing to be. It's like almost anything else, cavediving included, those that do the most talking are usually full of it.

On edit, I think it's Mat isn't it, not Matt?

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No worries dude, you're right on target ;)

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Originally Posted by rotor60driver

Alright so I don't post too often but I will get in on this one. As a combat vet who is also a friend of Mat I am curious as to why you being a vet would come up in conversation. I have known and dived with Mat for nearly six years and not once have I felt or heard this from him. I have had him show me around here and there over the years and he never asked me about my service to ensure he wasn't hanging out with a vet. Not too sure it ever even came up in conversation although I have showed up to dive sites in uniform before having driven straight from work so it's not like I was hiding it.

So to complete your purpose of showing us the context of the conversation could you fill in all the blanks in the discussion. It is possible his problem is you and not your background. Not knowing you or the situation/conversation I can't say.

Thanks for your service though.

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He apparently thinks he's entitled to all the results of others hardwork because he was in the service. Shawn, you and every one of my other past and present military buddies have never leaned on their services for entitlement.



I will happily share with anyone the full, unabridged conversation. I think people should know how this guys mind works.

The other thing I didn't post about Mat is arguing with him is like wallowing in the mud with a Hog.
I'd suggest you not even try, because you'll probably get all frustrated and furious, but Mat loves it :)

I know when I am wrong and I will apologize for what I said to Mat. Since I am unsure if he got my message to him, I will post it here.

You know what Mat, I am sorry about what I said. I don't want you to get stuck in a cave. I overreacted to what you said. I realized with some afterthought, I don't hate you or anything like that. I really feel sorry for you.

And no I don't feel entitled to anything because of my service, you misunderstood my response.

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Originally Posted by jcook

Yep I did (off the forum), though technically I said I hope you get stuck in one of them :roll:. I think locations should be open to everyone. We should discourage those who aren't up to snuff from diving it (instructor's should be more strict), but we should all share these sites with one another for the benefit of all cave divers. If we hide sites, then we are no better than those who keep us out of sites that we are trying to open to everyone.

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OK first off I will admit in front of everyone that you offered to chat about our differences and I haven't had time to reply, but I will admit you at least deserve one and I will try to find time to do it soon.

Everyone is all for sharing where caves are...until they know where they're at, then they don't want to share. So long as you live in a fantasy world where instruction quality is going to get better or divers will respect their limits (neither of those two things will happen), then sharing every location is fine. Until then, there's a desire to keep secrets.

I learned that spending half as much time asking to participate in permits as you do bitching about them gets you on the permit. Spending half as much time getting to know a few active divers as you do bitching about not sharing gets you more info than you would have even known to ask. Your blog criticizes the DIR community for no good reason, Kevin's recent organization hasn't even made it to their 2nd month and you're already challenging them. Active divers who are willing to share info get PM's from you saying you hope they die. A new shop opens in Tally with divers who are attempting to start an active exploration community get criticized before they open by you. You volunteer for the CDS and then the first hiccup you hit with one individual whom you called out hardcore on here, you're blasting a member on Facebook in the public eye. You post that you legally dove a site and then when we exchange PM's about my last discussion with the owner you ask FW to delete your post. Maybe you are your own worst enemy?

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Originally Posted by jcook

I don't hate you or anything like that. I really feel sorry for you.

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Gee, I hope to one day receive an apology like that from someone...

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Gee, I hope to one day receive an apology like that from someone...

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One day he will grow up. Have my doubts but I hope so.