Rules of Engagement?? what have you done?

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04-20-2010 06:51 PM
phillip1

In the DR it we will be installing warning signs and giving out informational letters to all LDS about the dangers of cave diving, we hope that at the very least if OW clienst see the signs they will think twice about going in the cave, we will also be sending an email informing all cert agencies that the signs are in place and the LDS have been warned so if (god forbid) something happens or LDS keep taking OW divesr way past the cavern zone the instructors will maybe get sanctioned.

The problem in the DR is that not even the cave diving community:blackbar2, we have been trying to motivate other cave divers to get involved and help us out with the signs and letters but it was not until we got fed up and just did it ourselves that anything got done.
04-20-2010 07:44 PM
sskasser

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

That's great Shirley.

I always felt if they really wanted to get this video to hit home,they should have the cave divers stripping gear off of the victims,and putting in the trunk of their car and driving away. In a sad way,people will be so irate over someone taking their property,they won't take the chance of entering the cave.

Or show pictures of the deceased's hands.
04-20-2010 07:46 PM
sskasser

Quote:

Originally Posted by jj1987

For me it really depends, do they have any gear that I want? If so, I'll offer my dive buddy a few bucks to not report them and we'll start the bidding.

Got to hear an instructor this weekend who was teaching a class, saw OW divers in Devil's. He took their light and opened it underwater, ruining it. IMO that gives a terrible image for our community, talking to them is about all we can do.

James,
If you heard this instructor/BOD say this first hand, I'd really like to know who it was, being election time and all.
04-20-2010 08:41 PM
RN

Quote:

Originally Posted by sskasser

Another thought, triggered by FW's post:

If we could somehow "get" to all OW instructors, especially the non cave-diving ones, and help them to understand, I think we'd be onto something. Cave diving was not covered in my OW class except the "don't dive beyond your training blah blah blah." I think it makes a lot of sense to specify and spend a few more minutes on it, especially in Florida, where there are so many opportunities for them to hit a cave.

My students have to watch "A Deceptively Easy Way to Die" as part of their OW class. I don't avoid the subject of caves (hard to be around me for 5 minutes and not know it's my true love). I've talked to a couple of OW instructors who are horrified by me doing this.

Hmmmm, maybe one or more of the cave agencies could host a "fun" day somewhere and invite generically "all current OW instructors." Throw in some door prizes, t-shirts, etc, have some fun with it, but create the opportunity to get "our" message across, and impress upon them the importance of passing that message on to their students. Heck, Ginnie might even be interested in co-hosting.

I don't teach much OW anymore, but any non-overhead diver I teach gets to watch Deceptively Easy and Rescue 911. I even have them linked on my website: Diving the fresh water springs.
04-20-2010 09:46 PM
adam0321

Quote:

Originally Posted by RN

I don't teach much OW anymore, but any non-overhead diver I teach gets to watch Deceptively Easy and Rescue 911. I even have them linked on my website: Diving the fresh water springs.

yup made me watch them when i did my intro course.
04-20-2010 10:04 PM
jj1987

Quote:

Originally Posted by sskasser

James,
If you heard this instructor/BOD say this first hand, I'd really like to know who it was, being election time and all.

I'll send you a FB message.
04-21-2010 05:05 AM
Kelly Jessop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Bryan

If the GIANT signs on land

It is too bad people can't read those giant signs. Every few years someone doesn't read the several signs that say don't jump off the platform at Devils,and they break their neck. Ginnie gets sued,and our entrance fee goes up.
04-21-2010 05:27 AM
cavedog57

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam0321

JUst wondering to what lengths you have gone to keep open water divers out of caves. ...[J]ust wondering what stories you guys had??

This situation seems to come up once or twice a year, but I've only got one decent story.

It happened while decoing in the Ear at Ginnie about ten or so years ago. Two OW rigged divers entered the hole and stopped at the log and chain. After some gesturing and pointing toward the cave entrance, one pulled out a small light and started for the opening. I caught the other diver's attention, wagged my hand and head in an emphatic "NO" -- he hesitated, then stopped. The first diver either didn't see my warning or ignored it and kept heading in. I caught up just as he began pulling himself through the restriction and grabbed him by the tank valve. After a few seconds of struggling, got him loose and the flow took care of the rest.

A few minutes later, after he and his buddy regained his composure on the surface, they tried again. This time I simply blocked them, shaking my head firmly "NO", and refusing to allow him to pass. I pointed to his "OW" marked wrist band, pointed to the cave, and shook my head "NO" a couple of times. After a minute or so, they finally left and I completed my deco obligation (about ten minutes).

When I surfaced they were waiting at the steps. One was pretty irate (I figured he was the guy I wrestled with) but the other was quiet. Mr. Irate started bitching loudly as I organized my stage and deco bottles, removed my fins and climbed out of the water. At the top of the steps I told him that I'd just saved their (f*#&%@g) lives and this was a pretty sorry thank you. I then suggested we head over to the office and ask my friends what they thought about this situation. Mr. Irate calmed down and they decided to go dive the Ballroom instead.

Was it the "right" thing to do? I suppose that depends on how you look at it. When Mr. Irate questioned me as to my authority to keep he and his buddy out of the cave, I simply replied that every cave diver has not only the authority but an obligation to keep OW divers from killing themselves in "our" caves. Now I'm not entirely comfortable with that position, but it did make an impression on Mr. Irate and his friend, and I would prefer that "our" caves remain open, so that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
04-21-2010 05:37 AM
Kelly Jessop

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavedog57

This situation seems to come up once or twice a year, but I've only got one decent story.

It happened while decoing in the Ear at Ginnie about ten or so years ago. Two OW rigged divers entered the hole and stopped at the log and chain. After some gesturing and pointing toward the cave entrance, one pulled out a small light and started for the opening. I caught the other diver's attention, wagged my hand and head in an emphatic "NO" -- he hesitated, then stopped. The first diver either didn't see my warning or ignored it and kept heading in. I caught up just as he began pulling himself through the restriction and grabbed him by the tank valve. After a few seconds of struggling, got him loose and the flow took care of the rest.

A few minutes later, after he and his buddy regained his composure on the surface, they tried again. This time I simply blocked them, shaking my head firmly "NO", and refusing to allow him to pass. I pointed to his "OW" marked wrist band, pointed to the cave, and shook my head "NO" a couple of times. After a minute or so, they finally left and I completed my deco obligation (about ten minutes).

When I surfaced they were waiting at the steps. One was pretty irate (I figured he was the guy I wrestled with) but the other was quiet. Mr. Irate started bitching loudly as I organized my stage and deco bottles, removed my fins and climbed out of the water. At the top of the steps I told him that I'd just saved their (f*#&%@g) lives and this was a pretty sorry thank you. I then suggested we head over to the office and ask my friends what they thought about this situation. Mr. Irate calmed down and they decided to go dive the Ballroom instead.

Was it the "right" thing to do? I suppose that depends on how you look at it. When Mr. Irate questioned me as to my authority to keep he and his buddy out of the cave, I simply replied that every cave diver has not only the authority but an obligation to keep OW divers from killing themselves in "our" caves. Now I'm not entirely comfortable with that position, but it did make an impression on Mr. Irate and his friend, and I would prefer that "our" caves remain open, so that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I remember the incident with Tyler Moon many years ago similar to this,that resulted in assault charges.
04-21-2010 07:30 AM
LiteHedded

Quote:

Originally Posted by jj1987

I'll send you a FB message.

oh just post it garrett. you wont surprise anyone with the name

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