An observation - re: Grim Reaper Sign

ooops, sorry, Me.

I did not mean to high-jack this thread....the original question I believe was if there is a personality type that goes against "do not enter" signs and are thus more likely to enter caves without training.

My initial response was yes there is and it's the same type that eventually gets training, thus many current cave divers are that type of personality (ignore rules, except the ones they make up for themselves, self-assured, somewhat asocial, low anxiety, well above average on sensation-seeking and risk-taking, attracted to activities requiring detailed planning).

I really don't think the ow diver going in caves is likely to be the kind of person with a death-wish, or lacking in self-control, or dumb, or feeling invulnerable, and no more likely or unlikely to be a red-neck. There are too many less expensive easier to get into activities for those types.

And there is that "go where no one has gone before" factor, which may be more like, "hmmmm, let me see what's around the next corner just out of sight from here." This is what draws people. In this case the sign would actually deter them. Someone already knows what is around this corner. And the sign points out the importance of needing some training before you go look, not that you can't go look.

I think Me also implied that maybe the grim reaper sign needed changing in some way - to make it more effective?

-skip

How many people read the warning label on a pack of cigs, then smoke them anyway?

How many people read that eating too many Twinkies will make them fat and cause heart disease, then eat them anyway?

How many of us saw horrifying films of car wreck victims in driver's ed, then still don't wear seat belts?

How many people read the GR sign, then go in anyway?

If it wasn't for all the ignorant people in the world, the smart people wouldn't look so smart.

BTW, I'm one of those people that's lucky to be alive. I've done many things, diving and otherwise, that should have gotten me killed. Then I read The Last Dive and went and got the best training I could find. Now I talk about all the ignorant people doing what I used to do. Just lucky I lived long enough to come around huh.

edited out for rule #

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Originally Posted by chilldive

How many people read the warning label on a pack of cigs, then smoke them anyway?

How many people read that eating too many Twinkies will make them fat and cause heart disease, then eat them anyway?

How many of us saw horrifying films of car wreck victims in driver's ed, then still don't wear seat belts?

How many people read the GR sign, then go in anyway?

If it wasn't for all the ignorant people in the world, the smart people wouldn't look so smart.

BTW, I'm one of those people that's lucky to be alive. I've done many things, diving and otherwise, that should have gotten me killed. Then I read The Last Dive and went and got the best training I could find. Now I talk about all the ignorant people doing what I used to do. Just lucky I lived long enough to come around huh.

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It's called experience...I think that is how Sheck Exley started....

To comment on the office tool, well, there are people like that in every field. I tend to agree, it may be a personality trait. Maybe not a good one if you want to stick around but if you do something stupid and survive it, eithr of two things happens. You have an epiphany and realize what an idiot you were and how close you came to being history (and seek proper training or just not do it again) OR it validates your perception that you survived it because it's simple and you are superior (in your mind) and therefore you can do things like that better than anyone else.... you get the picture....

You see them in the ER, I see them in the ICU, hooked up to a vent with upteenth drips and parts amputated and they still have not made the connection.... go figure.... I call it job security.

Dive safe,

Celia

Some people are instinctive rule-breakers. Professionally, I am. (As soon as my professor said that glass flasks can't consume alkaline reagents, I had to prove that they do.)
People with no experience of apparent risk tend to over-rate or under-rate real risk by a factor of 100. (Driving a car, sober and belted, is safer tha ow diving, riding a bicycle is not.)
My open water instructor (John Brown, YMCA) analyzed every New Jersey diving accident he had heard of. From that I learned enough caution to train for new environments and back up everything. Occasional personal incidents have taught me the wisdom of my ow instructor's warnings.
I think the sign serves a useful purpose in telling cavern divers and reasonable ow divers that this is the absolute limit of safety for them.

I may fit into Skip's study group-

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your basic thrill-seeker or "sensation-seeking" type, often engaging in other risky activities (sky diving, pilot, motorcycles, x-treme sports, etc.), and low trait anxiety, slow to anger, and a bit asocial.

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I have jumped out of perfectly good airplanes, been employed as a pilot, ridden motorcycles, participated in "x-treme" activities, am slow to anger and perhaps by being on this computer some would call me asocial?

Anyhow, the first time I saw an unmarked overhead environment I went right in without hesitation. However, the first time I saw the GR sign I paused, and shortly thereafter, turned and left.

Perhaps if I had been running with a different crowd I may have proceeded. I've witnessed plenty of OW divers take their buddies into dangerous areas that neither of them belong in. As we say in the military, "buddy is only half the word."

I guess my point is that I appreciate the signs and appreciate my training. Many people seek thrills and danger, those that live through their early experiences gradually gain an appreciation for the wisdom of those that have gone before them.

Of course, another popular military expression is: "You can't fix stupid."

Ehhhh.....I've worked with a few guys like that. They use it to cover up their own inadequecies. Blow him off. (Not literally. :-)) Tell him, yup, sure, he's 'possibly' right (buried sarcasm). Tell him he should just go for it. He won't. He's just trying to get under your skin. Guys like that tend to be top sellers too because they are either bullies or so annoying people buy just to get rid of them. Like I said, blow him off if you can. Just my 0.02. I'm sure everybody else thinks he's jerk too so his career is self-limiting. Sad part is that I know how to handle these guys so my boss keeps throwing me in with them. Experience is getting me out of it faster and faster as the years go by. The secret is to not give a care. :lol:

Angie

Yeah, I think the guy just likes to spout garbage. He's just trying to be argumentative and contrary.

For every Darwin candidate that is lost due to the GR sign, probably more are saved. Afterall, the signs were put up, because before they existed, people were dying. Hopefully they're saving a few people. And the Darwin candidates that are lost... well......

Today is April Fools Day. I was reading some pranks on the online news. I read this one and it made me think of the coworker:

We put a cooked duck under the seat of a real jerk's car the day it was 108 and he was driving 10 hours.

You know you could get all the "normal" co-workers together and make the b00b's life miserable. He might get the drift that he's the only one who's getting picked on. But you have to be careful. In this post 9/11 world, you have to be careful you don't do anything you get thrown in jail for.

You could do less harmful pranks like:
We had just gotten a new snack machine in our office. I sent everyone except Mike an e-mail saying that Mike had volunteered to take a survey of choices for the machine. I explained that Mike was a busy guy, so that instead of wasting his time, everyone should just leave him a voicemail simply stating their two choices among Twinkies, Ho-Hos, Ring Dings and Ding-Dongs. Within 15 minutes, poor Mike's voicemail box was overflowing with dozens of messages that just said things like "Ding Dongs and Ho-Ho's" or "Twinkies and Ring Dings" with no explanation. He didn't have a clue why.

See, you couldn't get thrown in jail for that. And if *everyone* did it, there'd be strength in numbers and hopefully no one would be fired, either. And while, that is kinda "cute," if the "mark" (i.e. your b00b) was the target of a LOT of those sorts of pranks, it might make an impact.

I did like these two computer related pranks, too:
An overly trusting co-worker didn't lock his PC when he left for break. I took a screen shot of his desktop, set it as his wallpaper, then moved all of his desktop items and shortcuts into his "my documents" folder. Everything looked like it should because the wallpaper had their images — but mysteriously nothing we'd moved into "my documents" would respond to any clicks of the mouse. He was completely stumped for about 15 minutes until I confessed.
and
I placed small Post-It notes under everyone's mouse and wrote April Fool's on them. So many people never thought to look under the mouse when the mouse would not work.

All pranks above from:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17874520/

We happen to have lots of snakes around our house and occasionally we find coral snakes. This morning my husband told me and the kids that he'd found a two-headed coral snake. We ran out, opened the lid of the bucket to find a sign reading "April Fools". Hahahahaha. That was funny.

We also have folks that ride horses through the neighborhood. Occaionally ponies and once walked a llama. Last year my husband told us that someone was riding a camel down the road! Got us again!! Geez....

Me,

Did you ever think he may jealous & not have the balls to do what you do ?

Mike M