suicide clips?

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Originally Posted by mpoucher

So, if its just sidemounts or a single stage, suicide clips are manageable. For double, triple, or more stages with scooters their, well....suicidal...

Mike

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Ahh....good point. Thank you. I haven't been staging with sidemounts (or scootering) so I haven't run into this problem yet.. My training instructor had a preference for these clips. This is the first really rational reason I have heard for not using them in sidemount. One tank removal to untangle yourself is no big deal. Multiples become a problem. I'll rethink my position and see what other clips I own.

BTW I have often been tangled in a set line but never was the clip involved. However, I did once have a problem with my own reel that wound around my tank and got caught up in the clips. Mostly is was annoying.

i guess the next one will be a post to discuss zipties. evolution goes by spiral.

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Originally Posted by ARY

i guess the next one will be a post to discuss zipties. evolution goes by spiral.

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'
Well then please post something interesting. God knows we need something here. Been quite boring of late. :smt039 :wink:

Isn't the very nature of "sidemounting" a non-DIR endeavor? It's a very individualized specialty to be geared toward the type of environment that you are diving in so your gear configuration is always dynamic. That's what I was taught during my sidemount course. It's the main reason I took up cave diving using this method after diving in backmount. So using these types of clips then becomes more of a personal preference, based on the type of diving environment and not a matter of any dive philosophy. Just thought that I'd add my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by cavedivenut

Isn't the very nature of "sidemounting" a non-DIR endeavor? It's a very individualized specialty to be geared toward the type of environment that you are diving in so your gear configuration is always dynamic.

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Purely as a philosophy, DIR apples to all types of diving and is a natural progression towards perfecting your rig and methods. Mine has gone through three major revisions in the last fifteen years, but the principles are the same: safety, streamlining, ease of rigging, de-rigging, and trim. I've seen some good rigs, which all follow the above, and I've seen some really bad rigs that were missing one or more of the above. What I have works well and my methods or configuration don't change with the environment except for minor things like different fins to maintain trim in a wetsuit versus drysuit and adding weight when diving aluminum tanks in Mexico

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Originally Posted by cavedivenut

It's a very individualized specialty to be geared toward the type of environment that you are diving in so your gear configuration is always dynamic.

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So's backmount.

Mike, Thanks for your explanation and rationale. I am sitting here working on the next UWS and thought I would share why I don’t use spring loaded clips. http://www.oigarden.com/JohnsonSeaLi...altyReport.pdf
This accident happened while I was learning to snorkel down in the keys. I don’t know the exact story but one of the corrective actions included Ed Link and DuPont coming up with a Kevlar rope on a reel that could be released if the sub ever got in trouble again. Rumor had it that the Kevlar rope was strong enough to be able to pull the sub off the bottom. Ask Gene Melton the next time you see him. Gene worked for Ed Link and was a Sea-Link sub pilot and diver in the 70’s and 80’s. Gene was actually the first diver to touch the USS Monitor after its discovery in 1974.

I will leave this PDF up for a few weeks.

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Originally Posted by ARY

i guess the next one will be a post to discuss zipties. evolution goes by spiral.

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you meant circles?

Anyone can do what they want, but most people believe that spring clips are more of a hazard then bolt snaps.

I won't use them period. It's an unsafe mentality that believes that using that clip is ok for one circumstance, even though it would be wrong for most others. In any kind of challenging technical diving you need to have a consistant approach and methodology. There is no "it's OK this time or for this". That attitude is just an accident waiting to happen.

They make snap bolts that can be removed just as easily as a suicide clip.
Go find them. Ease of use should never take a precedence over safety or a safe mindset.

If you are using suicide clips for one application then why don't you change everything to suicide clips if you think so much of them??

Jay

?????

I always wear a helmet when I ride a motorcycle, but I never wear one when I drive a car.

?????

Where's your logic, Jay? My light head is in my hand during the dive (unless it craps out, in which case it gets clipped onto my left chest D-ring), so a suicide clip is no problem. My backup lights, on the other hand, are clipped behind me. Bolt snap.

My primary reel is in my hand at the beginning of, and at the end of the dive. It's never clipped to me inside the cave. Suicide clip. Jump/gap and safety reels - clipped behind me. Bolt snap.

Very few things in life are all or nothing.