what do the standards say?

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Originally Posted by Aotus

Does anyone have a TDI intro card handy? This old post says there are NO RESTRICTIONS allowed for intro - no distinction between major or minor.

Link: http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...itations...?s=

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That is a restriction for TDI CAVERN, not for INTRO. Never has been. I checked the standards of 1994, 2006 and 2015.
The limit is 130', sixths, no decompression and single guideline.

That would explain the use of 1/3rds at that level (single tank) Was thinking TDI must be more like NAUI than I thought.

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Originally Posted by Superlyte27

Does TDI not have depth limitatations at Intro to Cave? Does TDI not have limitations on going through a restriction at Intro to cave. I don't know. I've never read the standards.

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i don't know either. my cave cards are nacd, not tdi. my an/dp and mix are tdi.

ok, so it seems there's no real consensus. either this needs to be spelled out, or not witch-hunted.

I see the line at cave trained level with some leeway to the apprentice level, but those sites and dives at the intro level? Not a chance in my opinion. I also think the an/dp course structure is dumb even when done correctly. What's with the deep air? We know better these days but the training has not caught up. Where's the early trimix training? Many of the course flows are just silly. There are other options out there but you have to look hard to find them.

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Originally Posted by BabyDuck

ok, so it seems there's no real consensus. either this needs to be spelled out, or not witch-hunted.

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Agreed. How is this absent from their website?

But, is your question whether the tdi class was violating standards? I got the impression from the NACD training violation thread that the concern was that the NACD intro cave cert was insufficient for the location and depth, and thus the NACD instructor was suspended, even though he was teaching a non-NACD (tdi?) class. I'm completely baffled as to how it's advanced to this point without clear standards that speak directly to this situation, but maybe there's more to it than we know...anyway,

Was your TDI instructor (also) an NACD instructor?

TDI Cavern
https://www.tdisdi.com/tdi/get-certified/Cavern-Diver/

TDI Intro
https://www.tdisdi.com/tdi/get-certi...to-cave-diver/

TDI Cave
https://www.tdisdi.com/tdi/get-certi...ll-cave-diver/

TDI Deco Procedures
https://www.tdisdi.com/tdi/get-certi...cedures-Diver/

TDI Advanced Nitrox
https://www.tdisdi.com/tdi/get-certi...-Nitrox-Diver/


"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed that is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead, Anthropologist

I really try to stay abreast of the comings and going in the cave community but I am Sooooo.. Glad I got full cave in the 90s and dove like a feand for several years. Dove Henleys on air when air was cool. did air deco on Bauechet computers forever....dove Voodoo gas when everyone thought we were going to fissssssss like Alka seltzer. Sometimes I think we take ourselves too seriously. I'm not saying deco and missed gas and standards should not be followed but learning each dive is important. Trust your training, train some more. We had an incident at the gun range today because one of our regulars got used to our routine and walked down range during cease fire, hot range, instead of cold range. We need to break routine keep things fresh.

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Originally Posted by Aotus

I got the impression from the NACD training violation thread that the concern was that the NACD intro cave cert was insufficient for the location and depth, and thus the NACD instructor was suspended, even though he was teaching a non-NACD (tdi?) class. I'm completely baffled as to how it's advanced to this point without clear standards that speak directly to this situation, but maybe there's more to it than we know...anyway,

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To make it very clear in terms of what happened with the instructor who was suspended.

His students were not NACD certified, they were certified with another agency.
The class was an AN/DP recreational trimix class with another agency using a normoxic trimix, as Ben suggested.
Training was done in LOG, not in Hendley's castle, to about 150', within navigation limits (main line only, no navigational decisions) and within sixths.

As a result, this event had zero to do with the NACD and was in compliance with standards of the agency the class was performed under.
Nevertheless the instructor got suspended by the NACD BoD.

So I truly hope for Mike O'Leary that Rick Murcar and the rest of the BoD no longer read this thread.

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Originally Posted by nakatomi

To make it very clear in terms of what happened with the instructor who was suspended.

His students were not NACD certified, they were certified with another agency.
The class was an AN/DP recreational trimix class with another agency using a normoxic trimix, as Ben suggested.
Training was done in LOG, not in Hendley's castle, to about 150', within navigation limits (main line only, no navigational decisions) and within sixths.

As a result, this event had zero to do with the NACD and was in compliance with standards of the agency the class was performed under.
Nevertheless the instructor got suspended by the NACD BoD.

So I truly hope for Mike O'Leary that Rick Murcar and the rest of the BoD no longer read this thread.

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What was the cave certification level of the student?

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

What was the cave certification level of the student?

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Frankly I don't know but it was either Intro to Cave and/or an Apprentice to Cave.
All limits of the certification were adhered to, except for the depth (exceeded by 20') which is a given since this was a (recreational) Trimix class.
And again, it would technically have been no different with a full cave student.