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David Baker does not own the land. Hays County does. I presented the ASA project to the county board. thats the process. According to the county manager David Baker presented your project to the board to stir the pot. Get your facts straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by uwDesigner
I agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
The "enemy" in TX are the rules against cave diving. All interested parties should unite and work together to get some laws changed.
The same is true in Florida! The attitude that "my group" is better/safer than your group stinks. It confuses state officials, and their easiest solution is to require permits to dive some sites. Then other groups get jealous and sit back and complain, or apply for a parallel permit. Neither action helps solve the real problem.
Thank you Forrest!! You hit the nail on the head. The exact problem in Texas is just as you stated. Just reference the big BS storm on here in 2009 because I went and dove a public site. Funny thing is the one complaining was the same one who was holding JW for himself. He and all is associates who prefer a private playground. The founder of WET is one one these people. He was invited by myself to join our diving many times prior to and after the formation of ASA in 2008. His choice was to accept invitations from any and every source he could that allowed him to dive. Personally this is fine by me. It gets him diving and he can gain experience from many divers considering he was a newbie back then. His problem is he needs to be the star and G3I if you will. This this the crappy mentality that keeps him in hot water!! He always runs his mouth and knows it will create tension when the other group is out for a private playground setup.
Sure I have been accused of hijacking access. I'm being accuse of it now. But if opening sites for public access from a group of weenies is hijacking then I am guilty!!! But it is exactly why there are 9 new sites opened to public diving in Wakulla County. Had The wet founder just played along instead of needing to be "somebody" that nobody gives a crap about, you may very well have the ability to dive in Texas right now. The problem is he can't keep his mouth shut and play along with the movement. Instead he starts another group so as to lead more confusion in the powers that be. What will now end up happening is the well will be closed to diving to everyone! He could have joined ASA and taken a chance that his bad name and reputation would have been overlooked by the dive team but he chose to to try to leverage a guarantee he would be placed on the dive team if he paid. Sorry but there are no guarantees in life especially when you stab so many in the back. I tried to help him many times even before he started his new group 4 months ago but he decided my advice wasn't what he needed. So now you have it another group in Texas continuing the fight for the only dive site in Texas. Yes I know there is Good Enough and a few others on private land but most don't have the kahunas to go dive GE in fear of public reprimand and the others won't ever open because of people and groups like WET and the original group headed by the one who filed his complaint on here in 2009!
Matt you hit the nail on the head on SB as well. Diving will close at JW!!
Remove TX and add MO and a few other places,because the statement rings trueQuote:
Originally Posted by FW
Steve,
I am posting this as a member of the Aquatic Science Association.
We've only met via a handshake, at the award ceremony for Edd. You seemed very well spoken there and I had a good impression of you. I'm compelled to say that I do not have such a positive impression of this latest post. I don't know the person you're speaking of well and haven't met him in person yet. I know very little of the history to warrant all of the animosity-- knowing the little of cave diving politics that I do, it seems to be a familiar story as several others, just with different names of those involved.
I will say that I feel the public criticism of a person's character, when outside readers can have no idea who or what you're referring to, could have been thought out more carefully. On the basis of the person I saw in you at the ceremony, I really would have expected more grace. Although you profess to open doors, the sort of language you use here about someone in such a public setting can do nothing but close them. If this is how you spoke to this person at the time, I really couldn't blame him for not feeling like playing along.
Much has been made of the supposed public outing of difficulties in cooperating within the cave diving community-- first by David, now by you. I would ask you both to reflect how much you've done to make this protest glaringly public. What began as a private correspondence between David and I has been dragged out for all to see. I hope you can see the irony in publicly complaining about it being public.
Much has also been made in these posts about WET not allowing divers to participate in other projects. This is due to a misunderstanding started by me, the 'newer cave diver' in David's last post here. I was being overly careful, imagining landmines to step around in that team, probably owing to so many stories I've heard of cave politics. Now that the various members of WET know about my concerns, they've all assured me they have no problem with it, with various examples of other groups that they themselves dive with.
I've had no such experience on the ASA side so far. Despite the various criticisms David has posted concerning the WET team prohibiting participation with another team, I seem to be completely cut off on the ASA side. Despite having paid my dues to be a full member of ASA, and despite having publicly and privately apologized for the misunderstanding, and both publicly and privately renewing my offer to help with the project at JW, at this point I feel decidedly unwelcome in the ASA. There has been no reaction to my offer to help out. There has been no private communication at all with me since the forum posts began, and the only result of any private communications I've sent is that they show up in the next forum post. Prior to completely breaking off communications, there have even been implied threats that as a member of WET, I would be shunned by members of the community in Florida, people I know well enough to be incredulous at the thought of them concerning themselves in such a way over this issue.
It could be that high emotions over this matter have prompted ASA board members to react on a personal level, without due consideration that you are in fact representatives of an organization made up of members. I myself am one of those members, and I've expressed my sincere support for the organization's goals, and as far as I'm aware I've done nothing to compromise my good standing as a member. As my representatives, I hope you and David will take a breath, consider your responsibilities to a wider circle than your personal feelings, and do your best to navigate through the complicated issues you've shouldered in assuming those responsibilities. This may mean cooperation or at least peaceful coexistence with those you don't like or those who have a different vision.
I really hope everyone can come to a civil understanding about this, or at least keep the embers from bursting into open flame. The realist side of me says this hope isn't shaping up very well so far, but I'll hang on to the hope regardless.
Best regards,
Eric
Quote:
Originally Posted by speleodiver
It really seems as though this should have been handled alot better :/
Eric,
If you are feeling left out then it is because you haven't shown up for any projects. Being that ASA Is international and not just a group of Texas divers looking for a hole close to home because they lack funds to drive to Florida or get to Mexico, makes for plenty of opportunity for you. I suggest you take a break and a long hard look at why you feel you may be cut off in Florida. Obviously you have been told this by someone close by. While you're at it read the post from Forrest one one time and really soak it in. If you feel you don't understand politics of diving in Texas it I because you don't! Just like the leader of wet who pulled this same attitude of "just wanting to dive", you are building your own reputation. You will have to live with your decisions not me. Therefore I will not afford you the same advice I have to others in a public forum, as I have come to realize it is a waste of my time. However, you only need to look at how many teams the leader of wet as been a part of in the last year and then look at how many he isn't a part of now. The whole attitude of "you can't dive with other groups"stems from the team he just left. Trust me I tried to dive with those guys for a long time. I obviously wasn't good enough until they realized I was and then I was slammed in public. Perhaps the person you haven't even met yet can explain to you why he joined their team just 9 months ago and why he thought he needed a guarantee if he joined ASA. Unlike you he wants the sure thing. At least you took a risk and I will guarantee it will pay off for you if you put in the time. Non profit is for the betterment of the public not because you're too broke to dive in far away open sites or have a private playground. Btw, I haven't seen a public post from wet inviting divers to join in. But perhaps I will now.
You are more then welcome to help on any ASA project but unfortunately you may be driving to Florida to do so. There is a reason why JW is closed to diving and you have chosen to be a part of it. The sad thing is there was things in the work to change restrictions at JW but since the reason this post is here happened, I really don't see the need in me continuing my efforts with as much as I have going on in Florida.
I will leave you with one last thought to remember. Do not cry over spilled milk!!!
I personally called both Eric and Carl.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
This is true, David did give me a call once the lack of communication was pointed out above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavemn
I meant the whole thing from the beginning. Too many personal vendettas and emotional decision making.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavemn
Some comments in this thread are rather embarrassing if they represent ASA(and I don't believe they do, but I can certainly see how they can be read in that manner), and not just personal opinion.