Indian is closed?

I paid Indian Springs, not the guide. And I do like the Emerald qualifications. A lot. I agree that they could probably be extended to Indian and everyone (more or less) would be happy. Emerald looks untouched.

In any case, I'd rather dive than whine ;) If I need a guide to dive there, then sign me up!

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Originally Posted by PfcAJ

I paid Indian Springs, not the guide. And I do like the Emerald qualifications. A lot. I agree that they could probably be extended to Indian and everyone (more or less) would be happy. Emerald looks untouched.

In any case, I'd rather dive than whine ;) If I need a guide to dive there, then sign me up!

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LOL Emerald was pretty nice on Sat. a little milky from the rain.

I'd rather dive too, but guides are an issue I feel really strongly about, and so I fight it. Further, I have "the courage of my convictions" and refuse to dive guided systems, whether or not the guides are friends.

If I were the person who bought the property at Indian and had never thought much about cave divers I'd resort to Google and research "Cave Divers" "Cave Diving" etc.

Very quickly I'd run across www.cavediver.net & begin to read what cave divers say, see what they are about etc.

Knowing no more about us than what I read on the forum here I'd avoid the group of "Cave Divers" like the plague.

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Originally Posted by Benthic

While you're working on it, could you please explore the possibility of allowing CCR there and abolishing the guide system?

Brian

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100 percent agreement.....

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Originally Posted by Benthic

I don't want to turn this into a guide v. no-guide argument--and Kelly and I have talked about that enough over the years that I'm fairly certain he knows my feelings on the issue.

But, for the record, I don't necessarily think that one should just throw open the door and risk Indian becoming Ginnie or Jackson. I would just like to see a process whereby qualified divers could eventually visit the system without having their hands held. If the diver in question needs to have certain qualifications and/or make a small number of dives with a guide before that happens, I have no issue with that. But a diver who holds the appropriate credentials should not be saddled with a chaperone forever.

Brian

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I think Emerald credentials and the requirement to dive 1-2x with a guide so that you're familiarized with landowner desires (where to park, setup, stay out of the way, etc) would be acceptable. I'm not a huge guide fan, but I must admit that Indian is the best of that group. Rick Crawford and Keith Gault have been extremely easy to schedule guided dives with. Other guided systems are essentially closed if you're not buddy buddy with a guide.

Maybe the real point here is the trade off. CCR at Emerald/CC and scooters at Indian. Personally I think there are some valid points here. Especially the ones who would rather boycott diving then go back to the roots and dive OC. Seems to be a lot of folks that jumped right into scuba on CCR and just can't hack the old school days of hours of deco to see a great cave. All is fine by me as I don't have to look at damaged cave and I actually have space to sit without all the breathers piled on every table bench and tailgate. Btw, I own a CCR and I still would rather scooter OC then not dive CCR!
With the dives I pull I'm carrying all the OC gas anyway so why have the breather to slow me down?

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Originally Posted by Kevin Carlisle

Im not against CCR diving there but I would vote NO on open unguided dives. Its too nice too turn it into a Ginnie or Jackson Blue.

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Is anyone checking how well the guides are diving? I've personally seen one of them crashing into the walls at Emerald(no, not you OFG :P), which is by no means a small cave.

I disagree with the guide system in place there. I've put up with it to dive at Indian, but would preffer overwhelmingly not having to deal with a guide whatsovever. Granted, I've only dived Indian with one guide, and I'd dive pretty much anywhere with him. I still don't think it should be necessary for me to HAVE to arrange diving through a guide.



Keep experience and certification prerequisites in place to keep the squirrels out. It works at Emerald/CC.

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Originally Posted by speleodiver

Maybe the real point here is the trade off. CCR at Emerald/CC and scooters at Indian. Personally I think there are some valid points here. Especially the ones who would rather boycott diving then go back to the roots and dive OC. Seems to be a lot of folks that jumped right into scuba on CCR and just can't hack the old school days of hours of deco to see a great cave. All is fine by me as I don't have to look at damaged cave and I actually have space to sit without all the breathers piled on every table bench and tailgate. Btw, I own a CCR and I still would rather scooter OC then not dive CCR!
With the dives I pull I'm carrying all the OC gas anyway so why have the breather to slow me down?

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Except for all the CCR divers in this thread HAVE done their OC time.

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Originally Posted by speleodiver

Maybe the real point here is the trade off. CCR at Emerald/CC and scooters at Indian. Personally I think there are some valid points here. Especially the ones who would rather boycott diving then go back to the roots and dive OC. Seems to be a lot of folks that jumped right into scuba on CCR and just can't hack the old school days of hours of deco to see a great cave. All is fine by me as I don't have to look at damaged cave and I actually have space to sit without all the breathers piled on every table bench and tailgate. Btw, I own a CCR and I still would rather scooter OC then not dive CCR!
With the dives I pull I'm carrying all the OC gas anyway so why have the breather to slow me down?

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Not quite sure what you are trying to say here....

CCRs were never on the prohibited list at Emerald. If you are happy to dive OC at Indian (or anywhere else, for that matter) that's great. Not all of us feel that way. I dived OC for many years, 10 of them as a cave diver. These days we are set up for CCR, and switching back and forth between the two is royal (and expensive) pita, hence the preference for CCR.

BTW, we had a nice conversation Sunday morning with Leslie at the shop, it was nice meeting her.

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Originally Posted by harmstrong

Not quite sure what you are trying to say here....

CCRs were never on the prohibited list at Emerald. If you are happy to dive OC at Indian (or anywhere else, for that matter) that's great. Not all of us feel that way. I dived OC for many years, 10 of them as a cave diver. These days we are set up for CCR, and switching back and forth between the two is royal (and expensive) pita, hence the preference for CCR.

BTW, we had a nice conversation Sunday morning with Leslie at the shop, it was nice meeting her.

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I agree switching back and forth can have its ups and downs. My point is at not diving cause of limitations. Being here in the county, it seems the more people refrain from diving sites and bringing forth valid concerns of limitations, the more the restrictions remain in place. In the conversation with Lesley it was mentioned scooters were to be revisited at Emerald and CC after a year. This hasn't happened because people would rather just not dive and with that the issue fades away. I send proposals to the state and Feds all the time. One or two won't get anything accomplished but many from different folks will start the wheels turning in those agencies.

I know CCR was never off the list at both state sites. That was the perception left by a certain resident who boycotted those sites over other reasons. He boycotts Indian over CCR restrictions. While I understand not wanting to dive OC after spending the money and time on CCR, I don't see it being an all out reason to not dive at all. I don't know you or you diving habits so don't take what I say personally but rather an invitation to push your point of view to the people who make decisions and get some changes in place that suit your desires. While the CDF is good for venting and a little information here and there. It won't likely meet eye contact with the right people. Trust me I have an interest I everyone diving in Wakulla County. It can be done but like I said before it takes active divers pushing the issues.