How many would dive in Wakulla County?

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Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

Hopefully the Emerald commitee continues to push for relaxed restrictions at these sites since there has been no incidents since being open, despite the claims of some of those opposed to having these sites accessible..

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You are correct. I was part of the negotiation process in opening up Emerald. Many people from different organizations and ideals came together with park management to hammer out an access policy that everyone could agree on,and park management would rubber stamp. Was it what we wanted-no,but it was the best we could do at the time. The Emerald committee has worked hard to streamline some processes,and fast track people who submit credentials to dive there. Realize that diving there came during an era when local land owners were told that if you let these people in,then get the body bags,so it has taken time to build trust,plus compounded there is an infrequent management change.

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Originally Posted by jcook

They have intentionally made it more difficult for the average cave diver to dive in the Wakulla county area, Indian, Emerald, and Clearcut. Most cave divers cannot meet the idiotic requirements for diving those sites and aren't going to go through the effort to fill out all the paperwork to dive at Emerald/Clearcut if they have met all the requirements,. ..

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Nobody intentionally made things difficult. When you are dealing with land owners that are granting you access,and that have special requirements they insist on,at this point we have 2 choices 1)thank you and we will comply 2)no we don't want to dive there. Are these rules we as cave divers like,no,but this is better than what has happened around the Hudson area,they get closed,and no negotiation. Lot of people have kicked their butt to get access to these places and maintain good landowner relations so continued access can occur.

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just to get there and it's blown out

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You are lucky there is the internet where you could get local conditions from forums. When I was diving Wakulla area the best there was a 300 baud BBS and basically I made a lot of trips to look at brown water,eat some BBQ,and go home. The nature of the beast of Leon sinks area is they blow out easily,and can take awhile to clear. The biggest difference in 17 years is that water quality from the neighbor to the north has worsened things

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Also they all have ZERO rebreather diving

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Last I recall Emerald and Clearcut don't have this,matter of fact I don't think any of them have that except Indian

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

Last I recall Emerald and Clearcut don't have this,matter of fact I don't think any of them have that except Indian

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Kelly, I had spoken with Larry about it last year at the NACD Rebreather Summit and he told me there was no CCR diving there. I assumed since he was on the review panel, he would be the man to ask. I guess I could've just PM'ed you too, my bad. Woohoo! Looks like I can take my rebreather there now.

About the blown sites, I was alluding to the fact that you basically have to plan your entire day around this one site, days in advance, due to the form or did the time requirements change? Even then, not all the info online is up to date. With most other places in cave country, there are dozens of other places in the general vicinity that divers can go to if a site is blown. You don't have as many easy options (which most people want) in Wakulla county. It comes down to a lot of people go by the seat of their pants to go dive places, you don't really have that option as much as you do in Marianna, High Springs, Mayo, etc. Also it is ease of access, when there is a decent amount of difficultly to get to a site, a lot of people will just give up. Let me clarify to people, I don't mind it, I am expressing what I have seen and hear from others.

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Originally Posted by jcook

Kelly, I had spoken with Larry about it last year at the NACD Rebreather Summit and he told me there was no CCR diving there. I assumed since he was on the review panel, he would be the man to ask. I guess I could've just PM'ed you too, my bad. Woohoo! Looks like I can take my rebreather there now.

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I rechecked the Emerald rules and no where can I find no CCR diving.

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About the blown sites, I was alluding to the fact that you basically have to plan your entire day around this one site, days in advance, due to the form or did the time requirements change? Even then, not all the info online is up to date. With most other places in cave country, there are dozens of other places in the general vicinity that divers can go to if a site is blown.
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The bad thing is comparing Wakulla region to say the Peacock region is an apples and orange issue. The systems around Peacock region have multiple recharge basins with different water sources,so we can have one place good,and another bad. But Leon sinks is like a giant Lafayette Blue. Lafayette has over 20 sinks in this one system,so when rains heavily the whole system goes. Leon sinks does the same thing,but it is spread over several miles. There have been cases when the WKPP has planned a dive based on conditions days before only to find the plans cancelled or changed due to rain etc. Unfortunately this is just one of the peculiarities to Woodville karst region-when it is good it is worth the effort,and when it is bad,then happy hour starts early.

Thanks for the input and correction of FACTS Kelly. The rumor mill here in Wakulla is responsible for the CCR misinformation. The dive application has all the rules and has not been changed since they were written. A link to them is here: http://www.safecavediving.com/forms/...n_06-22-10.pdf (taken right from the NACD website).

We have been able to get applications through in one day recently thanks to the efforts of a few panel members. I have even been able to get a reservation the day before if the site was not already booked.

There are other sites here to dive that stay clear most of the year as Mat mentioned. Some are open now and some will have need to be acquired. Hence the whole point of the thread. If enough people start coming here to dive then the ease of convincing folks to open sites will exist. True fact in life is money talks and BS walks. That is the case here. Economic rise will open sites and misleading and false information will keep them shut. It is things like the CCR issue just discussed that keep poeple away. If Larry was consulted it would have been made clear rebreathers are allowed. Surely one of the people who helped write the rules wouldn't give out the wrong information. The point I have made and will say again to someone who didn't get it is: we need a uniform effort. This means we get what we can, have civil discussions with those that have what we want, dispell the rumors and misleading information and work together. No boycotts, no whinning, no pot stirring and certainly no people involved that can't be happy with compromise.

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Originally Posted by jcook

With most other places in cave country, there are dozens of other places in the general vicinity that divers can go to if a site is blown. You don't have as many easy options (which most people want) in Wakulla county.

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Can you please name a dozen(or dozens) easy access places in the Mayo or High Springs(or Marianna) areas that open without getting waivers or use of a boat?

I smell a falacy.

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Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

Can you please name a dozen(or dozens) easy access places in the Mayo or High Springs(or Marianna) areas that open without getting waivers or use of a boat?

I smell a falacy.

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No fallacy (proper spelling) Mat, just caves to dive. So you have 3 different easy entrances at WSPSSP (basically like 3 different caves for most divers just on back gas), Little River, Jug Hole, Telford, 2 different caves at Ginnie (there are apparently more in the area, but you need a boat), Lafayette Blue, Convict, there is Ruth (I think thats the one) on the way to Little River from Peacock, and Cow. But that Cow waiver sure does take a long time to fill out.....

Wait isn't this thread about Wakulla?

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Originally Posted by jcook

No fallacy (proper spelling) Mat, just caves to dive. So you have 3 different easy entrances at WSPSSP (basically like 3 different caves for most divers just on back gas), Little River, Jug Hole, Telford, 2 different caves at Ginnie (there are apparently more in the area, but you need a boat), Lafayette Blue, Convict, there is Ruth (I think thats the one) on the way to Little River from Peacock, and Cow. But that Cow waiver sure does take a long time to fill out.....

Wait isn't this thread about Wakulla?

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So what you're saying is no, there's not a dozen caves in the area that you can just drive up and dive...

Cow requires a waiver and CDS membership. Jug is seasonal and requires a healthy walk. There are two caves at Ginnie? I guess if you include whats behind the gate, sure. Telford requires a boat or a swim up the river. Nothing about any of the caves I just listed require any more effort than alot of whats in Wakulla.




So the fallacy I smelled earlier, has just been found. Fact check before you spout crap.

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Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn

So what you're saying is no, there's not a dozen caves in the area that you can just drive up and dive...

Cow requires a waiver and CDS membership. Jug is seasonal and requires a healthy walk. There are two caves at Ginnie? I guess if you include whats behind the gate, sure. Telford requires a boat or a swim up the river. Nothing about any of the caves I just listed require any more effort than alot of whats in Wakulla.



So the fallacy I smelled earlier, has just been found. Fact check before you spout crap.

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Wow dude you must have some serious issues with your life to be this angry, I was just giving you the info requested. Why don't you be more specific next time, instead of trying to bait me into stuff like you are right now? You asked me a question you already had the answer to. You never specified just driving right up, you said "needing a waiver or boat". I had just said easy options, I guess your definition of easy is different than mine. I guess if you consider a 1/4 mile walk on a trail a healthy walk, you may want to stop diving and start exercising more. You know obesity affects 1/3 of all male americans and it is a serious issue. If you don't like the answers I gave you (which were correct and there are more sites by the way) just don't continue reading what I post, it's not that hard. Here is a website for you Mat http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

but the bottom line is Wakulla Co is not a tourist destination,and is off the I75 Disney corridor. Diving,and cave diving specifically would bring tourist dollars to a community that is striving to keep its head above the poverty level. Who would think that Suwannee County,Gilchrist County,Jackson County etc are international and national sites that receive an economic boost from ecoturism by cave divers. I applaud your efforts,and barriers will be broken down,but it will take time and perserverence.

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I don't think cave divers come to Florida to see anything related to Disney... and perhaps more exposure and education may change things (like get the local government get off their collective duffs and actually allow cave diving to take place). People that invest thousands of dollars in equipment, training, and travel do not do so because they are stupid and want to kill themselves in some dark, water filled hole. Yes, it will take time and perseverance, but we need to make it happen (open the door) in order for the rest of the populous to get on the band wagon. Sort of a catch 22.....

Dive safe,

Celia