Have you ever lost the line? And if so how many minutes did it take to find it?

Never lost the line, just had to look around to see where it is trying to hide. :clapper

I did find the lost line drill one of the hardest during training. While I managed to find it every time I did see people swimming parallel to the line till they were out of reel line and other problems that we ran into during the LL, I touched the line with my legs and did not notice it and swam right by, I managed to jam my safety reel and had to abandon it and used one of my backup backup finger spools. Lost line is taught blinded out which I don't see any different to do it in a silt out, but I always thought that I was very lucky to find the line and being in areas of a cave systems and seen some sections I'm sure you need a lot of luck to find it there.

I'm not an instructor, but I thought that finding the line in zero vis was a requirement for completing full cave.

For one of my lost line searches I was twisted and turned and moved around a bunch and was placed on what (by feel) seemed like a sand slide. It took a while just to find something to tie into. It was suprisingly easy to tie in the line without sight. I then proceeded to search. I (evidently) headed off down the passage, counting the knots in my safety line as I went. Too many. The passage was not this wide. So I wound the spool back in and proceeded in another direction. I came across a line. Good. I was relieved. But it didn't feel right. I was trying to find the gold line and this obviously was some other line, so I kept searching until I found the right line. Absolutely zero viz and yes there was some luck involved but I have little doubt that given enough time that I could find the line in most circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Squirrel Girl

That's the thing that worries me more, losing the line when there ISN'T limestone touching me on all sides, but bigger passage where you can go around groping for way too long. Though, most of the time you wouldn't have zero vis such that you couldn't see anything in big passage. But that scenario has intimidated me such that I have slowly worked up to being happy in zero vis.

I could just keep practicing by following you in Dos Coronas! :-D :-)

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Tell me more about this thing you call groping:)

I have lost it for 10 seconds or less when I turned to look at something but it has always been in clear water. Like Rob, it popped out of my hand once in zero viz but I found it in 2 seconds or so.

One thing to keep in mind, lost line drills are done in "training areas" most of the time. This is an area that is probably ideal for this - lots of tie off etc... I can think of lots of areas where it would be MUCH harder than where I did all of my lost line drills.

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Originally Posted by FW

A lost line search is very difficult, if not impossible in truly zero viz. You can't read a compass, and it is even hard to find something to tie the line on, to even start a search. So yes, it is luck if you do find it. By "zero visibility" I mean the kind where you can't see your light, until it touches the glass on your mask.

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I hate to disagree with you but to some extent I do. For the most part I agree it can be very difficult. However a couple thousand hours working underwater in truly zero viz attunes you to spatial awareness and very subtle cues regarding orientation, inner ear perceptions, light flow/current, depth and buoyancy changes, bottom composition and alignment, etc that make orienting and staying directionally oriented in a lights out/total silt out a little easier. I don't think it's something that can be taught however.

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I have never seen the advantage of looking too long or hard for a suitable rock to tie off on - just drop a suitably heavy backup light, reel, etc and avoid getting more lost or disoriented looking for a tie off. The goal is to get back on the line, not find a great tie off.

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In classes I've always asked before hand if they want me to do the "drill" or just go straight for the line once I establish a tie off. Some instructors want the drill, and I assume look for proper orientation, procedure, etc. Others say go for the line if you think you know where it is - and those evolutions don't take me very long.

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Like Lynn Mexico got my attention as the huge rooms, extensive decoration, complex passages and combination of both long jumps in some areas and snap and reach gaps in others, combined in some places with haloclines, creates the potential to find the *wrong* line and not realize it until the viz improves and you note the cave does not look like it should. That scares me more than zero viz in the average N FL cave.

I have lost it diving in Mexico. I wrote about it in another thread. We got in to a zero vis situation and we were all on the line. I was in the 2nd spot. The third diver shot past me and pushed me in to the ceiling. Everyone else made it out before the silt got to it's worst. The 4th diver had the jump reel. So I had no line to follow and could not see it if I did. Luckily I was able to find the main line and guess the right way out.

I turned a dive at kitty's a few weeks ago. We went in a small passage barely big enough for BM, clear water but got silty we came to T with several lines and separated to explore each direction on our own due to conditions and meet back in 10-15 min. I went into a small and very very silty passage and barely any flow. I went in about 100'-200' and it quickly turned to 0 viz around me, before it got too silty I noticed a couple feet in front of me that the line is being berried in the fine silt, and covered about a foot for at least 30'. I stopped took note of the cave and the line and I opted it's not worth to dig out the fatigue line and risk a line break so I decided to turn. At this point I was in a zero viz and I had sweep a couple times to my left to get hold to the line which was 1-2 feet to my left and I was aware of its location, but it sure felt good to have the line in my hands. I went back to the T and since I still had time I took another lead running into my buddy who came around a small circuit and was surprised to face me there, we went back to main line and ran a couple several 100' up streams.

in a horizontal restriction my leg cramped and it sent me off the line, silted out everything. as I worked out the cramp I went up into a vertical crack and got wedged in pretty tight. i managed to work one hand to the rear dump and pull it and then descended nicely into a big silt cloud. back on the bottom I tied off the safety reel and swam into the densest part of the silt figuring that's where I'd come from. Sure enough the line showed up with my buddy right there flashing his light back and forth. Never grinned so big in my life.

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Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt

I lost the line in a cave about 35 years ago...never again.

Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.

Forrest: We teach lost line all the time, everybody finds it. You are welcome to come sit/swim through a lost line exercise with me anytime.

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I teach it just like we discussed in my IE and I still have students who don't find it. I do cut the drill after about 10 minutes or so.

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Or ..wait until you are on a CCR to lose it, then you have hours to find it, not just minutes.

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As I tell my students, "You have the rest of your life to find the line."

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Originally Posted by jaydubya

I'm not an instructor, but I thought that finding the line in zero vis was a requirement for completing full cave.

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It's nice to have happen, but not a requirement for any of the agencies I teach through. Standards state the student must conduct the drill but there's nothing about finding it - NACD, NSS-CDS, IANTD, and TDI. I prefer they don't find it. It sends a better message about not losing the line.

During my intro training we did the drill and I swam right under the line (or more likely my instructor gingerly lifted it above me as I swam towards it) when it snapped on my leg, I tied into it, I chose my direction which I was certain was the way out, only to find out that I was completely wrong. That scared me more than searching for the line. Even though I would have eventually figured out the right way and I had more than enough gas to do so, just seeing how easy it was to become disoriented in the cave kinda spooked me.