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I believe guides should posses the same levels of professionalism, responsibility and knowledge as an instructor. Carry liability insurance, have the necessary emergency equipment and training in its use available at all times. I am not saying only an instructor should guide. There are other professional certifications. IANTD Technical Cave Dive Supervisor for example.
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I remember when I went to alachua for the first time it was drilled into my head that if I came anywhere near that first claybank the dive would be over right then and there. features like that are amazing and the guides who go out of their way to keep them that way are awesome.
I not so sure it is so much about insurance, cards, emergency equipment, etc., but more about "attitude." Regardless of whether or not the guide is taking someone to a relatively easy spot, an off-the-path/hidden cave, or something really challenging, it's (IMO) all about understanding that for the moment the diver is putting his or her "trust" in the guide's hands. The guide, if he or she accepts the challenge, therefore accepts the "responsibilty" that goes with it (which is what defines a professional in the first place). And to me it doesn't matter whether or not the guide is getting paid.Quote:
Originally Posted by billybones519
One more point, and that is that as a professional the guide should not start the dive if it's obvious that the divers aren't really ready for the dive + if they don't have the necessary gear for the dive, and should turn the dive if it becomes apparent that the divers or the conditions so warrant. Just comes with the territory.
Wow, I find this stuff about "trust" to be interesting. I don't think that, outside of class, I've ever done a dive where I needed to "trust" the person who was guiding me, whether it was a friend taking me somewhere I'd never been before, or someone I paid. I suppose I trust them as far as the information they provide me on the surface, about where we are going and what the conditions are there, but once we're in the water, I'm diving just the same as I dive with any other buddy or buddies. I'm responsible for gas management, for being aware of the navigation, and for turning the dive if I'm uncomfortable or am having problems. The only thing I "trust" the guide for is that he is a competent diver at the level where we are diving.
I'm with youQuote:
Originally Posted by LCF
Ok, maybe I went over the edge a little with my last post (I see red when we start talking about specialty cards), but the thread is about guiding and my point is that if you do it just remember that everyone is not necessarily as good as you.
I almost always use a guide in Mexico, as he is much more able to get me into cenotes which are somewhat "off the beaten path". Also because after a few problems "negotiating" the entance fees at a few different places ( I don't Habla muy bien), I have found it much easier to have a local assist. As far as the dive, I expect a briefing, a short what to expect on this dive etc. In the water I expect to take care of myself and have a buddy. If I feel uncomfortable I thumb the dive. If he feels I am not up to par I hope he will thumb the dive and tell me about it on the surface.
I recently went to Marianna for an SM class, after I spent 4 days doing guided dives, simply because I had never dove there before, and was able to see some very nice passages I probably would not of found on my own.
The example I gave you is NOT a specialty card, it is a professional level certification. Quite a bit is involved, an instructor trainer could give you specific details.Quote:
Originally Posted by w ripley
I think it's cavern divemaster you are thinking of, there is no cave suppervisor in the IANTD curriculum - as far as I know - and cavern DM only takes divers in caverns.
Cave divers have to assume their role in the team, therefore you will never find a guide that wears the hat of Mr Responsible for all. Not even the best cave instructor hired as a guide, can take responsabilities for the guided diver.
My idea of a "good guide" may evolve over time, since my focus now is more on "training/learning" than on "exploring new systems." So a guide that:Quote:
Originally Posted by alanf
Not to say that a good buddy/mentor couldn't do the above, but trying to get your buddies (most of whom are far more experienced) to step it down to your level enough for you to get the experience you need is a bit challenging.
- Knows the cave systems well and can show me what to look for
- Shows me the best OW primary tie off places and routings to the gold line
- Briefs me on gold line placement (ie. drawn on a map)
- Briefs me on cave features and hazards/restrictions, and where to take extra care to conserve them
- Most importantly, someone willing to do the kind of dives I need to do right now (ie. at my training level).
In the future, that guide might show me popular jumps and established auxiliary lines. Once I become fully trained and sufficiently experienced, then a guide would (as others suggest) provide access to the "classified" caves that require "Top Secret" SAP clearance etc.:-D