When Things Go Wrong

Students sometimes do the most surprising things.

Case #1: I normally sucker cavern students into the "cave zone" in the Ballroom at Ginnie to see if they are paying attention to the limits of daylight. One of my students was so small in build that he was nearly the perfect cave exploration machine. We discovered that when he accompanied me around the corner into the dark and upon seeing the major restriction in front of him where 99.9% of cavern students stop and turn because they can't fit and would be too terrified to attempt to venture, he swam in like a knife through butter. He thought the pulling he felt on his fin was simply caused by the restriction rather than his instructor. As I signaled him to get his @$$ back out, he gestured that if he turned sideways he could probably squeeze through the next restriction that he found. After a good reaming out in the debrief, the realization that being separated from his buddy's gas supply with his wife about to give birth to their second child, the fact that he could have suffered the ignoble fate of perishing in the ballroom and being trashed on the diving boards for decades, and the fact that he failed cavern class by going cave diving all added up to a lesson learned.

I learned to go in front of smaller students.

Case #2: I had an instructor intern position his "lost buddy" student in an unsafe position during a lost buddy drill. When I tried to get the student to follow me, I first used touch contact, then tried pulling on his manifold, then finally I tried dragging him out of the catacombs in Devil's by his ankle. He fought like a cat about to be put in the carry crate to go to the vet. He wouldn't move because he was commanded by the intern to stay put.

I learned to make sure the students understand that they need to obey the entire instructional staff even if an order is countermanded.

Students will go where you think no one in his right mind would venture and don't always obey signals ... or let you pull them from danger. Instructors might make mistakes as they learn early on in their careers, be vigilant once they gain experience, and maybe become a little more complacent after many years of teaching. This pattern exists for both divers and instructors. Newbies error, learn, and grow until they peak then wane. Accidents are more likely to happen when you are new or when you are an old salt.

When Jim Charles left me a message about Edd's rescue. I was just glad everything turned out okay for everyone involved. Good job, Edd!

I agree that instructors bear a significant responsibility in classes.
But, I think after cavern level classes, the students also bear an increasing share of that responsibility. I should turn the dive if I feel that I am heading into something that is "off". After intro, I always asked myself on a dive, "Would I be (comfortable) here by myself?" if the answer becomes, "No", I thumb the dive. I have done it with my instructor at the end of class on the "let's dive" dive and I have turned it with buddies because things weren't playing out as briefed.
Once, with instructor, it was because I just wasn't comfortable being in a cave for that long - not thirds, , not deco, not any issue, just my own feeling. No issues, just a shorter dive.
Once, with buddies, things seemed to be messier and tighter and getting kicked up (middle of 3 man team), I turned it because it didn't match the brief - coming out, we came to the end of a jump line all three of us had visually missed - back on main, plenty of gas, but going on in the mess might have been a big problem.
I am not defending or blasting anyone - just feel that as students we need to recognize our obligation. That's why we have to sign the "Inherently dangerous" waiver.

I guess in the alternate reality of CDS that it's totally those pesky students fault. I agree with a previous poster, maybe they were "shadowing" the instructor who they never signed forms for, which means everything is cool...move along... Nothing to see here...

I guess when the status quo involves instructors and shops defending dangerous behaviors, drug use, alcoholism, bad gas and refusing to discuss deaths involving "important" instructors we shouldn't be at all surprised.

Maybe we should just go back to chasing hunter with pitch forks because he demonstrates his social retardation...than we can all loudly proclaim how responsible and self policing we all are

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Originally Posted by FW

While the instructor made an error going in the wrong tunnel, he certainly picked the right person to do the rescue. Going for help, if you can't fit into a tunnel is not exactly "panic". Sure he was hyper, who wouldn't be?

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I agree 100%. This instructor made a serious error and didn't research his dive. When he knew he couldn't get to them he made the right choice and they lived. Also maybe they have a good idea of how unforgiving a cave is. I think that gets lost when 99% of the time we make it sound great. I have no idea how that Trace guy gets his ideas but I sure as hell wouldn't use an instructor that can blame his students at that level. If it was an advanced stage class I would expect them to know what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Carlisle

I agree 100%. This instructor made a serious error and didn't research his dive. When he knew he couldn't get to them he made the right choice and they lived. Also maybe they have a good idea of how unforgiving a cave is. I think that gets lost when 99% of the time we make it sound great. I have no idea how that Trace guy gets his ideas but I sure as hell wouldn't use an instructor that can blame his students at that level. If it was an advanced stage class I would expect them to know what they are doing.

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I'm not blaming the students, nor am I blaming the instructor. I wasn't there. All I said was that students do surprising things. I also don't know anything about the instructor involved nor any details of the class. I have learned to wait for the Frontline version of a story before calling for a witch hunt. An instructor can practice due care and apply a good measure of common sense and be surprised by the behavior of his students. Students can also find themselves in harm's way due to the behavior of an instructor. I've been there as an intro student when my buddy bolted on our cave instructor who rescued him from panic. I've also been there when had to thumb a dive when an instructor pushed the limits of safety when I was a tech student. In the above cases, I was surprised as an instructor when trying to keep students safe, but also teach them skills, drills, and limits.

Bottom line: We are all responsible for the safety of the team. I teach my students that I am their lifeguard, but they are also my lifeguards for classes. Sometimes, we choose to intervene in the safety of other teams. In classes, I will often put a ridiculous contents analysis label on my tanks to see if any of the students, other instructors, or people close by will notice and call my attention to it. Thus far, no one has ever caught what could be a fatal error - or, said anything, anyway. In this case, lives were saved by the actions of at least one individual - Edd. But, I'm sure the story would be interesting from all accounts and perhaps as not as cut and dry as the dive community would like it to be.

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Originally Posted by TraceMalin

Students sometimes do the most surprising things.
Case #2: I had an instructor intern position his "lost buddy" student in an unsafe position during a lost buddy drill. When I tried to get the student to follow me, I first used touch contact, then tried pulling on his manifold, then finally I tried dragging him out of the catacombs in Devil's by his ankle. He fought like a cat about to be put in the carry crate to go to the vet. He wouldn't move because he was commanded by the intern to stay put.

I learned to make sure the students understand that they need to obey the entire instructional staff even if an order is countermanded.

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Trace: Don't know if this is "relevant" or not. But when teaching firefighting, in hazard situations like the burn house, we always had a pre-agreed signal for the students that training had IMMEDIATELY ended, and everyone would exit the drill NOW!.

When I was intro student, my instructor used pats on the head, or squeezes on the ankle to indicate "exercise terminated- lights on, and pay attention to me NOW".

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Originally Posted by gschaut

Trace: Don't know if this is "relevant" or not. But when teaching firefighting, in hazard situations like the burn house, we always had a pre-agreed signal for the students that training had IMMEDIATELY ended, and everyone would exit the drill NOW!.

When I was intro student, my instructor used pats on the head, or squeezes on the ankle to indicate "exercise terminated- lights on, and pay attention to me NOW".

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As an instructor for the Army, we do the same thing. We use an "index" signal to stop what we are doing immediately. My cave instructors have all done the same thing.

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Originally Posted by TraceMalin

I'm not blaming the students, nor am I blaming the instructor. I wasn't there. All I said was that students do surprising things. I also don't know anything about the instructor involved nor any details of the class. I have learned to wait for the Frontline version of a story before calling for a witch hunt. An instructor can practice due care and apply a good measure of common sense and be surprised by the behavior of his students. Students can also find themselves in harm's way due to the behavior of an instructor. I've been there as an intro student when my buddy bolted on our cave instructor who rescued him from panic. I've also been there when had to thumb a dive when an instructor pushed the limits of safety when I was a tech student. In the above cases, I was surprised as an instructor when trying to keep students safe, but also teach them skills, drills, and limits.

Bottom line: We are all responsible for the safety of the team. I teach my students that I am their lifeguard, but they are also my lifeguards for classes. Sometimes, we choose to intervene in the safety of other teams. In classes, I will often put a ridiculous contents analysis label on my tanks to see if any of the students, other instructors, or people close by will notice and call my attention to it. Thus far, no one has ever caught what could be a fatal error - or, said anything, anyway. In this case, lives were saved by the actions of at least one individual - Edd. But, I'm sure the story would be interesting from all accounts and perhaps as not as cut and dry as the dive community would like it to be.

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Actually it is as cut and dry as I have said. The only disagreeance on this board is Wether or not he should have left for help. In this case I believe he did the right thing. If he hadn't at one wouldn't have made it.

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Originally Posted by gschaut

Trace: Don't know if this is "relevant" or not. But when teaching firefighting, in hazard situations like the burn house, we always had a pre-agreed signal for the students that training had IMMEDIATELY ended, and everyone would exit the drill NOW!.

When I was intro student, my instructor used pats on the head, or squeezes on the ankle to indicate "exercise terminated- lights on, and pay attention to me NOW".

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Originally Posted by JamesK

As an instructor for the Army, we do the same thing. We use an "index" signal to stop what we are doing immediately. My cave instructors have all done the same thing.

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You mean things like touch contact, light signals, and thumbs? :)

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Originally Posted by TraceMalin

You mean things like touch contact, light signals, and thumbs? :)

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LOL! Exactly! That is kinda what I was getting at in a round a bout way. We have signals in cave diving as well. In training, we have our "safe word" just like any where else. Obviously not a word, but something that ends training.