Cave Damage at Little River!!!

As far as I'm concerned if a passage can be done by that person with no damage it's going passage for them. If not they should stay out.

If you leave it up to each diver whether it is OK to damage the cave for them to do what they want then the entire cave is open to damage. Passages that should never be touched are destroyed by people who have no business being there.

Leave the cave the way it was before you got there and the caves will be there for everyone and the passages you aren't good enough to do will still be there when you are good enough.

If no one is good enough then no one should be in there. There should be no one digging, scraping or dragging - and absolutely no one breaking off pieces of the cave.

I guess most of you haven't been to Mexico? There are secondary formations there (stalactites, etc.) that have been broken by the original explorers to get into massive tunnel that wouldn't be reachable any other way. Thousands of "tourist" divers have gone through the passages to see the beauty beyond the damage. Somehow I suspect the damage in Little River wasn't actually intentional.

My first dive was at noon on the 1st and the damage you are speaking of was there at that time. I went up the merry-go-round and back the serpentine and saw it then. I remember thinking to myself "Wow, that sucks". I was trying to figure out how someone could have been so careless to have that happen, it wasn't a minor bump.

Regardless of equipment configurations or diving style, if you don't fit, you don't fit! Trying to ram your way though delicate/sensitive areas without regard for the cave is irresponsible at best.

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Originally Posted by FW

that wouldn't be reachable any other way.

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They could never know that and there is always another way. They just chose the most expedient route to get where they wanted to go - and destroyed cave formations in the process. Perhaps they gave it significant investigation before they decided to go ahead but it wasn't the only way. There could be surface access. A new surface access could be found, or dug. There could be any number of undiscovered passages leading into any area from almost anywhere.

It is also a bad example. What one diver can do another can also. Whenever a diver feels they need a better route they can just bash a new passageway open because they either didn't know a better route or felt it was too difficult. And why not? that's the way the original explorers did it didn't they?

That is the same thinking that has gotten much of the Devil's and many other systems damaged. Wanting to see the next spot they destroy the passages leading there to get to it - and they believe it is OK. In fact they are destroying the cave for their own immediate satisfaction.

Wherever people go with this thinking the cave is damaged and destroyed. Instead of requiring of themselves and others a damage free approach so the caves are explored without ruining them. Better yet, uninhibited by concern for the damage they do, they can explore much farther and spread their damage far and wide before anyone gets there ahead of them.

No one should be thinking that whatever they are interested in doing is so important that damaging the cave to do it is condonable. Preventing cave damage so that they and others can return repeatedly with as little damage as posiable serves everyone's interests far better.

Not a great first impression when the state takes over the park in approx 6 months.

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Originally Posted by FW

I guess most of you haven't been to Mexico? There are secondary formations there (stalactites, etc.) that have been broken by the original explorers to get into massive tunnel that wouldn't be reachable any other way. Thousands of "tourist" divers have gone through the passages to see the beauty beyond the damage. Somehow I suspect the damage in Little River wasn't actually intentional.

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Is this the official stance of the CDS?

I agree with Gary- too much damage in too short a time by divers who don't care or don't know any better.

JR

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Originally Posted by johnnyrichards

Is this the official stance of the CDS?

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It isn't a "stance" at all, just a statement of fact. Check my signature line :-)

It amazes me that when a concerned diver posts about damage to the cave how many people come out with the BS of exploration, dry cavers digging, cutting one or two formations in Mexico to get to huge going cave. Mike was reporting blatant cave damage by some idiot(s) doing something incredibly stupid.

What happened to "Leave nothing but bubbles, take nothing but pictures....................."?

I know where Mike is talking about; it is a tiny hole that goes nowhere and only a complete f____g moron would think any exploration could be done.

It is well past time for cave divers to wake up and realize what could happen. The state folks read these forums. Everybody bitches about the numbers policy at Manatee; how would you like to see that at Peacock and Little River???

And yes I have laid more line than most and NO I have not broken formations or plowed through a cave bank to get to going cave.

Jerry

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Originally Posted by Jerry

Everybody bitches about the numbers policy at Manatee; how would you like to see that at Peacock and Little River???

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This could be reality due to wear and tear in the cave system. Carrying capacity is a common approach when for example a trail gets too much attrition,no different for a cave system.