sneak diving

I guess the reason I get so worked up over this kind of stuff is that I have a problem with folks believing that just because it is rural Florida it is OK for Law Enforcement to violate people's rights and due process. Also since I was trained in North Florida It offends me that the stereotype of the big belly Sheriff Makin Yankees disappear still exists. I believe the guys going into law enforcement are professionals that wish to serve their community. Hell more than half the guys I went to the academy with in Gainesville were UF Grads.

Curt

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Originally Posted by curtschu

I guess the reason I get so worked up over this kind of stuff is that I have a problem with folks believing that just because it is rural Florida it is OK for Law Enforcement to violate people's rights and due process. Also since I was trained in North Florida It offends me that the stereotype of the big belly Sheriff Makin Yankees disappear still exists. I believe the guys going into law enforcement are professionals that wish to serve their community. Hell more than half the guys I went to the academy with in Gainesville were UF Grads.

Curt

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Curt
I agree with you. There are a lot of stereotypes that need to go away,including the Sheriff Makin Yankees (thats pretty good :D ),such as all locals at Little River are rednecks,and cave diver are thrill seekers that trespass on private land.

Have there been any acts of civil disobedience in cave diving? What was the outcome? What if a group of divers went day-blazing at Wakulla (for example) expecting to get busted? Would they arrest 100 people for scuba diving? Could they close access to other sites in the park? What if cave-diving became a felony offence? Would you still want to dive, or would it then become a "moral" issue for you? I believe good land owner relations are best for gaining site access, but what about when the State says no. I think it is total BS that the State of Florida used OUR tax money to purchase sites (sometimes against the wish of the previous owner by using imminent domain) and then subsequently closed access!

This is a sensitive issue, and laws are different in different states.

In general, "sneak diving" can't possibly do land owner relations any good. If the land owner even *thinks* people are trespassing, he is likely to be hostile the next time someone tries to get permission. This includes the state.

One thing most cave divers overlook is the numbers of cave divers, versus the rest of the population of the state. True, cave divers do pay taxes, but it is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the tax base.

The bottom line is, that we are lucky to be allowed to dive at all in state parks, and if we annoy state officials enough, they can close all state parks to cave diving.

It is true someone could sue for access, but that could take years in court, in the mean time, there wouldn't be very many good sites to dive in FL.

If you want to help gain access, do it through one of the existing cave diving organizations. They have spent many thousands of man hours over the years working with public officials to get the access we now have. Please don't risk losing it by sneak diving.

as I said, no signs are needed....."posted, fenced, cultivated"....any one of the three. signs definitely mean something, but crossing a fence without any signage is also trespassing. walking through a cornfield is trespassing.... you are trespassing even if there are no signs.

-skip

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Originally Posted by skip

as I said, no signs are needed....."posted, fenced, cultivated"....any one of the three. signs definitely mean something, but crossing a fence without any signage is also trespassing. walking through a cornfield is trespassing.... you are trespassing even if there are no signs.

-skip

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What you say is true, but in FL, the owner can't make a case against a tresspasser, unless the land is posted.

#1 rule of sneak diving - Don't get caught.

#2 rule of sneak diving - Don't talk about it until you no longer want to dive that site.

#3 rule of sneak diving - Take the "sneak diving" specialty and learn to DIR.

#4 rule of sneak diving - See rule #1.

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Originally Posted by FW

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Originally Posted by skip

as I said, no signs are needed....."posted, fenced, cultivated"....any one of the three. signs definitely mean something, but crossing a fence without any signage is also trespassing. walking through a cornfield is trespassing.... you are trespassing even if there are no signs.

-skip

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What you say is true, but in FL, the owner can't make a case against a tresspasser, unless the land is posted.

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And they have to tell you to leave

I want to take my gear with me and return to a simplier day. I am sure I could have gotten alone just fine with Osceola.

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Originally Posted by OutlawCaver

I want to take my gear with me and return to a simplier day. I am sure I could have gotten alone just fine with Osceola.

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What a beautiful dream, I have thought of this often, to have the equipment I have now & go back in time to what the rivers & caves were like when there were no regulations & pollution as we know it now, sure some farmers horse or cow crapped in the system once in a while, but it was a far cry from 300,000 people in one area that went down stream.

Not quite sure where I'd fill my tanks though, but this is a dream, I would have my portable compressor that ran on clear stream water.

Please don't wake me until tomorrow.

Mike M