I was using locking biners,anyone else? Best of both worlds in my mind.
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I was using locking biners,anyone else? Best of both worlds in my mind.
Being somewhat new to cave diving (Intro), what is a suicide clip :?:
Also called boat clip or marine snap, it has a "gate" on it that closes like that of a carabiner.
If you run it across a line, the gate will open, the line will go in, and it's captured. If you do that unintentionally, it could be dangerous.
However, the ease with which it clips on to something is what makes it work so well in certain applications. There are some applications where I wouldn't use anything else; there are others where you couldn't pay me to use one.
I can understand why some people say that they should never be used. For example, if you don't have enough sense to figure out what gear configuration works for you, you certainly don't need to be messing around with marine snaps in a cave.
You are both right!....in that I see the problems that may occur with the boat clips but here is my take....
This applies only to CAVE not WRECK diving:
Yes it is easier to catch a line in the so called suicide clip; HOWEVER, the ease of bottle attachment/detachment as a result outweighs the risks.
Well.....if in' you 'freak out' because a line gets caught in your clip and you can't deal with the entanglement and possible zero vis result, you have NOT planned the dive well and you are NOT mentally ready for the sidemount condition. BTW....keep your a** off the line.
So shoot me! That's the truth. Dives that require sidemount configurations call to be ready for zero vis situations.
That being said......sidemount configuration can be used for most situations that also will work for backmount. I'm just saying that if you are going to be killed by a minor entanglement (a line caught in the so called 'suicide clip' , you need to re-think if you are ready for sidemount at the depths you are considering.)
BTW --- always attach your 'suicide clips' with the opening 'face down'. Duh..... Minimizes the risk.....
I've heard this since forever about the "Suicide Clips" and I don't use them but the think outside of the box side of me that's always looking for the second answer asks this.........
With all of the places on or around Scuba gear (Valves, Buckles, Deco bottles, Spring Heel Straps, etc) for a line to get entangled, does using one clip over another really make much difference? I know it's all about minimizing risks but I would think Spring Heel straps would constitute a greater line trap then any clip. Especially for Wreck diving. You would definately have to cut a wire leader or monofilament out of those springs.
How many times have we read or been told not to wear shiny objects like jewelry in the water so as not to attract the interest of Senor Shark, El Cuda or the dreaded Sabre Toothed Cave Eel? I hear this and I'm thinking, What about all the very shiny chrome plated valves, D-rings, reg covers etc that are all over my rig?
I might as well have a dozen Clark Spoons hanging off me.
I think alot of these old rules just get repeated so often that they get set in stone and nobody looks at the larger picture.
That being said......I still won't use Suicide Clips or wear jewelry.....NO NOT EVER!! ;-)
It's the cousin of a bolt snap, (he got the bad name for repeated suicide attempts).Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy
Personally I prefer them.
I use biners but not locking anymore, if you get sand or mud in the threads they can be very difficult to unlock. Biners are easy to work with and make a convienient carry handle when your out of the water.Quote:
Originally Posted by eramosakarst
in 1985 John Ormsby died on the Andrea Doria because of one of those boat clips got caught in a line.
this is part of the book "Deep Descent: Adventure and Death Diving the Andrea Doria " by Kevin F. McMurray, a good read and after reading it you will never use suicide clips again.
quote from the book:
Gentile then noticed that a cable had been snagged by a brass spring-gated clip, or "suicide clip," that Ormsby had rigged to his harness to hang tools from. It was a telling moment for Gentile. He now knew what had happened to Ormsby. The cable that snaked up his leg to his back must have prevented Ormsby from escaping, causing him to struggle and entangle himself even more
I use bolt snaps exclusively for stages and sidemount connections and have no problem getting them on and off. Suicide clips aren't too bad until you have multiple stages clipped off, then a line caught in one is a mess trying to sort it out. You pretty much have to unclip everything to find the snag and then put them back on.
It's also a problem if your towing multiple bottles and/or scooters with just the neck clipped off and all those clips on the tank body just waiting to pounce on the line. I had the problem not too long ago where I still had a suicide clip on a scooter and it clipped onto the line and I pulled a placement loose. Slack line is floating down on top of me and I'm trying to manage three stages, and two scooters in high flow and not become completely entangled. Luckily nothing else was caught and I was able to get the line out of the scooter and get the line back in place, but it cost me in gas used....
So, if its just sidemounts or a single stage, suicide clips are manageable. For double, triple, or more stages with scooters their, well....suicidal...
Mike
The point not mentioned in detail so far is the ability of "suicide clips" to un-attach themselves from D-rings. This has the potential for loss of safety and life support tools such as reels b/u lights etc. When the clip twists back against itself the spring clip will open and what ever was attached is lost. /Ken