Mdax...
Whether it was fear mongering or not, in Florida it's fiction. You cannot be denied your insurance for helping in this situation.
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Mdax...
Whether it was fear mongering or not, in Florida it's fiction. You cannot be denied your insurance for helping in this situation.
Eric, Matt, and Robert,
Thank you for what you did. Thank you for making the best decisions you could in the situation. Thank you for your openness, and best wishes to you as you no doubt relive this situation many times. I hope you find peace from the images in your memories. You did good.
I'd be proud and pleased to have any of you in my corner any day.
Shirley
Yeah, what Shirley said!Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
WJH
When I was in farm league baseball as a kid, I made a really big play catching a pop up off the bat behind home plate. It ended the inning and I strutted into the dugout expecting praise, but the coach told me, "Next time, take off the catcher's mask." At the time, it hurt my feelings. But, I came to realize that he wasn't being ungrateful, he was just trying to help me. I don't think Ken is trying to belittle what the recovery team accomplished. I think he is simply looking out for their well-being and those of other divers who might find themselves in a similar situation. When I did the NSS-CDS Recovery/IUCRR in-water and RRSOM class, it was worth it just to hear Lamar recount examples of how recovery divers stirred up hornet's nests with law enforcement, surviving family members and the media. Many lessons have been learned over the years proving that "No good deed goes unpunished."
I'd probably believe Pete about insurance, though.
Thanks guys for giving up the "Merry" in your Christmas by helping others begin to find closure.
Eric, Matt and Robert, you provided a great service in a very tough situation and I commend your actions and sincerely thank you. You have NOTHING to apologize for. You provided more to the cave diving community in one afternoon than the IUCRR has in years. The IUCRR doesn't do a thing for cave diving any longer except take credit for the occasional recovery. What information have they provided lately (as in the last several years) to make our sport safer? Easy answer, not a thing. They have become non-relevant.
+1 What Shirley said.Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
Since the possibility exists that a recovery could become a rescue - which means time is of the essence - I have to say thank you to any experience diver who goes in looking for you or me. I deeply respect IUCRR and what its divers try to do, but I salute Eric, Matt & Robert for making the call they did on this one.
I also agree with putting emergency information where it's needed, like recently done at Cow. Adding a IUCRR phone number makes sense, too. Visiting divers don't always know who (or how) to contact in such circumstances.
I thought the IUCRR existed to assist local law enforcement organizations as a subordinate group of volunteers. Members of the organization are not supposed to speculate on facts, just report them to law enforcement. The information gathered belongs to the law enforcement agency. Any information that becomes available to the public should be free of speculation so that people can draw their own conclusions. As such, the primary concern of the organization is getting facts to law enforcement. Any educational benefit the cave diving community might gain from facts released to the public (such as information provided on the IUCRR website) is secondary.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavediver27
I know Ken, Matt and Eric and say with confidence that Matt will agree with this statement: Ken can be opinionated and difficult, but his cautions where law enforcement and negative outcomes are concerned are golden.
As someone who has zero interest in needing to understand all these dang acronyms I will offer this opinion...if there is a process to follow concerning volunters assisting law enforcement or other professionals then it is they that should shoulder the responsibility of the process and it's execution. Not the volunteers. If there was required Notification to be provided, then they should have done that. If none was required, only strongly encouraged, and a decision was made--so be it.
If the IUCRR wants to be involved for whatever reason then I see this as a problem for them to fix, not the people that get the call. Better info sharing, better communication, more involvement, etc.
But, that's just my thoughts.
Bob
As an outsider looking through the history of diving (I've been cave diving since 1997) perhaps it's naive of me, but I kind of feel the same way. I really don't know the inner workings of the IUCRR any longer. Seriously, why isn't this info shared. I've heard it said that it's someone's attempt to feel important in a field where they are no longer relevant, but there's gotta be more to it than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavediver27
Research into the IUCRR website has been part of the program I teach for all of my cavern and cave classes. For homework, I have each student log into the website they are required to read through the accident reports and pick three incidents from the dozens listed. They are to glean through the reports and tell me what they thought caused the accident. In every single class, every single student ultimately concludes that the diver or divers died due to some incident of complacency.
I think this approach is great for several reasons. A couple of those reasons are that the students see real life situations that ended badly. It really solidifies what can happen if you don't take this sport seriously. Add in the morbidity of it all, and I think it leaves somewhat of a lasting impression.
Ultimately, I think these reports are a wealth of information to our community, especially to newer cave divers. I can't see a single good reason why we stopped posting them. Especially when, the reports immediately become public information when the sheriff's office receives them. However, they are not quite as easy to obtain, unless you're willing to head to the clerk of courts during business hours.
So... to reiterate, as an outsider who don't know much about the inner workings of the IUCRR, I have to agree with cavediver27