Poll- Do you agree with the CDS getting out of the C- Card business?

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Originally Posted by JCGoodwin

I think this is a carry over from another thread that it was stated that if the CDS took a Leadership / Regulatory role OVER certifying agencies it could be a conflict of interest.
What I believed to be proposed was the CDS to take a BIGGER role in training by regulating certifying agencies, maintaining standards and regulations regarding instructors.
I am not trying to create any drama or offend anyone but as RESPECTED as the CDS is it might be one of the few that could pull this off.
This is a growing need that is being perceived.

JCG

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But why would a for profit agency like GUE, TDI or IANTD submit to oversight from the CDS? Another thing to consider is that the CDS is very Florida centric, there are many other cave areas in the world which might do things differently than the way things are done by the CDS because that's what works for their region and i doubt would welcome the oversight. You can already see some of this in sidemount diving styles which seem to be quite different from say Florida to Mexico to the UK. And if they weren't willing to do so voluntarily I don't see any mechanism that would force them to fall under their oversight. Now, I'm not saying that there isn't a requirement for improved standards etc, as that is well above my pay grade but if you honestly think the standards need to be improved I think the most realistic way of achieving that would be for the CDS to continue teaching, and to raise the level of their own standards forcing other agencies to compete. Just my 2 cents of course.

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Originally Posted by moody

But why would a for profit agency like GUE, TDI or IANTD submit to oversight from the CDS? Another thing to consider is that the CDS is very Florida centric, there are many other cave areas in the world which might do things differently than the way things are done by the CDS because that's what works for their region and i doubt would welcome the oversight. You can already see some of this in sidemount diving styles which seem to be quite different from say Florida to Mexico to the UK. And if they weren't willing to do so voluntarily I don't see any mechanism that would force them to fall under their oversight. Now, I'm not saying that there isn't a requirement for improved standards etc, as that is well above my pay grade but if you honestly think the standards need to be improved I think the most realistic way of achieving that would be for the CDS to continue teaching, and to raise the level of their own standards forcing other agencies to compete. Just my 2 cents of course.

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Exactly. I can't think of a single incentive that any of these agencies would have to subvert themselves to what the CDS says. Much less all of them, and that's what it would take for the sort of thing that's being proposed to have any teeth. The word "regulate" is being used, but I really doubt that what would come of this effort would be anything that could truly be described as regulation.

I can see the major training agencies agreeing on broad standards, but not electing an overlord, and I don't see accreditation panning out unless the cost of it is passed on to students, and only then if it's the case that those students are unable to dive the sites they want to without proof of training through an accredited instructor. Otherwise, all the incentive will be to go to the lower cost guys who don't play ball.

Maybe not the agencies getting oversight or accreditation, but individual instructors being able to say "NSS-CDS Accredited".

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with this at this time, just discussing.

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Originally Posted by JamesK

Maybe not the agencies getting oversight or accreditation, but individual instructors being able to say "NSS-CDS Accredited".

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with this at this time, just discussing.

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That is the rather lightly outlined idea presently. The issue with just trying to raise standards of teaching presently is that instructors teach through multiple agencies which makes corrective action almost impossible. I have turned an instructor in for, what I consider, criminal much less standards violations. I was informed directly by the training director for the agency that they couldn't do anything because the instructor teaches for multiple agencies and discipline would only hurt the agency from lost revenue.

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Originally Posted by Bobby

That is the rather lightly outlined idea presently. The issue with just trying to raise standards of teaching presently is that instructors teach through multiple agencies which makes corrective action almost impossible. I have turned an instructor in for, what I consider, criminal much less standards violations. I was informed directly by the training director for the agency that they couldn't do anything because the instructor teaches for multiple agencies and discipline would only hurt the agency from lost revenue.

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And that is absolutely what is wrong!!!!! It's all about the money. Who cares if he teaches for other agencies. Who cares if it hurts the originazations revenue. One instructor should not hold an agency hostage. Make the sanctions public on the website. "Instructor Billy Bob Jumbilia has been suspended for actions unbecoming an instuctor. On such a date he took students blah blah blah". That would give people actually researching instructors actual data instead of internet forum hearsay. It would also show that the CDS is of a higher standard and holds everyone in the orignazation to those standards.

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Originally Posted by JamesK

Maybe not the agencies getting oversight or accreditation, but individual instructors being able to say "NSS-CDS Accredited".

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with this at this time, just discussing.

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And I think that is exactly a much needed direction.

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Originally Posted by JamesK

Instructor Billy Bob Jumbilia .

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Hey,how dare you talk about my instructor. As soon as he finishes his time on "Duck Dynasty" he will be back to teaching.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

Hey,how dare you talk about my instructor. As soon as he finishes his time on "Duck Dynasty" he will be back to teaching.

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Sorry. I am not saying he is not a nice guy, he just needs to watch out what he is doing! LOL

I think that we're on to something here. One of the problems is that a new student doesn't really know if his or her instructor did
A good job of teaching them ( they don't know what they don't know) and the training agencies don't get paid by failing or sanctioning instructors and while there are some very good instructors out there we still are producing some sub standard divers.

So with that said; how do we solve this puzzle?

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Originally Posted by cwick

I think that we're on to something here. One of the problems is that a new student doesn't really know if his or her instructor did
A good job of teaching them ( they don't know what they don't know) and the training agencies don't get paid by failing or sanctioning instructors and while there are some very good instructors out there we still are producing some sub standard divers.

So with that said; how do we solve this puzzle?

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Mentoring programs. Requirement after class is done. With that you can evaluate student and teacher. How to start that, I dont know.