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Here's what I did a few weeks back. I think the training agencies need to include something like this in every class. Do any of the old guys here remember the Driver's Ed. movies we had to watch in high school showing all the gore and mayhem from wrecks. They scared the heck outta me. Maybe it would work for divers too.
http://www.floridadiveconnection.com...ery-new-diver/
The problem is that many instructors (and agencies) consider the chances of their students going into a cave to be remote, since there are no caves in their area. As we know, that isn't totally true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real1628
Good thread to start, Kelly, especially with the recent post by the father of the family involved in the Twin Cave incident on Merritt's Mill Pond. I won't tell anyone who is not cave trained how to access any cavern or caves. There are other means by which they might obtain that info, but it won't be from me. The "cave community" may not be able to keep them out, but we certainly shouldn't do anything to assist them in entering. No directions, no descriptions. Warning the untrained is a good thing to do, irregardless of how they respond. Simply, "You are not trained for this kind diving, other untrained divers like you have died by just swimming in, I urge you not to do it. Get trained first."
Not only that, but there is a trend toward taking all the scariness away and making the O/W class a warm fuzzy experience so the ranks can continue to expand and the $s will keep coming in. I'm sure we've all seen the signs that say "Remember when SCUBA diving was dangerous and sex was safe?" We have to focus on quality training and building experience. I shook a divemaster's hand earlier this year when he was explaining why he's been certified for years and just became a divemaster. He said,"I wanted to learn how to dive before I became a Divemaster." We need more of that attitude in diving.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
So what you are pushing for is a way to shut down the sites/information on caves and their locations because of possible liability that you are making up on your own?
Sounds like a path to a "closed database" of information to me.
Figured there was a hidden agenda to the poll. Good to see you come clean early.
I'm afraid the truth is the biggest source of information on where the caves are, is from places like this on the internet. What do you do about that? I don't have an answer.
Well this is interesting as this very thing happened to me when I was diving at OG last year.
Two OW divers with hand held flash lights wanted me to guide them to the cave and were very polite.
I asked them if they had any formal cave training and they said no it was not required to dive here.
They looked at me and said I must know what I was doing because I had all the gear.
At this point I went from playing along to are you guys serious?
They were and did not like it when I told them it was to be OW in pool only!
My wife and daughter were swimming in the pool checking it out so I sort of just hid in the shadow above the cave off to the right.
What they did next horrified me!
They swam down to look for my line to follow it into the cave.
They looked for about 5 min. and swam into the cave no line or reel of any kind!
Hanging there wondering just what to do I decided that I would wait 15 min and if they had not returned run a line in to the mainline and look for them.
I had started to tie in when I saw a light flicker from well into the cave so I returned to my perch about the entrance.
They made it out and before they could turn to look for me I slipped in the dark tied in and headed to the sign to investigate.
No real damage or any more than normal I should say so I exited.
My wife and daughter said the two were very angry with me for not taking them on a dive.
Are YOU KIDDING ME!
I looked around but they must have took off.
I reported it to the ranger and to CE but it is no wonder one of these has not been a fatality.
You can not protect people from themselves!
They, WE are our own worst enemies!
When rules and signs won't deter them then possibly Darwin will remove them from the gene pool.
The cave community does a awesome job of making others aware of the danger but in the end it is up to the individual to choose.
JCG
No agenda at all because I am too superficial of a thinker for that. But,think about what has worked for the dry caving community. I am not saying it would work for us,but it is something worth discussing. In reality I have been in the position of the poll scenario,and my choice then as it is now is that I am unwilling to share information unless your training (and experience) will allow you to perform the dive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegg
Darwin works...
Safe diving,
Rich
Not everthing and everybody has a hidden agenda. I would no more inform and open water diver were a cave location was than I would cut off my own arm. Not all information is meant for everyone. That does not mean that there's a conspiracy to withhold information to everyone. Think of it this way, some information is on a need to know basis, and OW divers don't need to know cave locations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegg