Mistakes I've made.

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Originally Posted by stairman

I got in the water geared up and had to have Gisselle retreive my fins from the truck.Dah!

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We went back the next day to dive OG again, and we were tying off in OW when we Giselle signaled "light" to me... we both forgot our primaries! Back to the surface, humped it back up the hill in my 104s to grab our lights... Got my heart pumping a bit. I should have chilled out for a bit at the surface before starting the dive. I sucked my 6th down in record time.

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Originally Posted by stairman

I dont remember the dome incident...

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The dome incident was on the dive the next day with Giselle... same dive we found your wet notes on.

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Originally Posted by FW

You might consider making this an IRAP, since it could have been a big issue if you silted out that bypass.

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I can do that. I wonder though, if there is a better way to run that line to that it's obvious when it disappears in to the crack. Maybe anchor it to a lead weight in the middle of the passage, then make a hard right turn with the line.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

May seem excessive,but running a reel will handle any disorientation. Domes can be areas with silt on ledges or fissures with material that will percolate out,so you could be returning to the line in a silt out,and then doing a lost line search. I have seen the most veteran of cave divers go off to look at something,and come back and be disoriented as to direction of travel. Murphy is always looking for an opportunity to strike,and taking extra caution keeps him from striking,or at least turning an emergency into an inconvenience.

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You're right. It does seem excessive, but I can see your point. There was definitely more silt up in that dome. If you look at the PI map, right where the Lower Lower OG circuit crosses under the OG line for the last time, there is a dome indicated on the map. That is where this occurred.

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Originally Posted by Bobby

I tell my students that we have a dollar bills worth of attention.

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That day I felt like a had $.05 worth. I know the technique you are talking about with the one-handed bowline... I should practice that in the water. Even on land I have to think about it.

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Originally Posted by Line Squirrel

I was told once "experience comes from mistakes that you manage to live through." I don't remember who I heard that from or where I read it, but it's stuck with me.

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I like that one... after dives like these it is more reassuring than "If at first you don't succeed, Cave Diving is not for you."

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Originally Posted by MORGAN

A pilot buddy says, "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment!" and "The superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations where he might have to use his superior skills." I've often thought both of these apply to diving as well.

Greenwood_60, the most important thing here is that you're realizing your mistakes, thinking about them, and determining to avoid them in the future. That indicates that you've got the most important (and most difficult to teach those that don't have it) attribute - the right attitude.

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I like your pilot buddy... my pilot brother's only quote with regards to me cave diving has been "you know you're a ******* idiot?"

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

...I can do that. I wonder though, if there is a better way to run that line to that it's obvious when it disappears in to the crack. Maybe anchor it to a lead weight in the middle of the passage, then make a hard right turn with the line...

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That is why all those lose rocks are along the passage, so you can anchor the line away from the cracks.

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Originally Posted by FW

That is why all those lose rocks are along the passage, so you can anchor the line away from the cracks.

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I think you are talking about the unlined passage at the beginning of OG. I am talking about that crack where I got off line around p800.

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

I think you are talking about the unlined passage at the beginning of OG. I am talking about that crack where I got off line around p800.

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Yep, I was talking about the line traps at the entrance. Send a PM to Jim Wyatt. He is on the Peacock line committee.

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Originally Posted by FW

Yep, I was talking about the line traps at the entrance. Send a PM to Jim Wyatt. He is on the Peacock line committee.

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Will do.

I love the rift, and the bypass. I don't recall the bypass being long, tight or very silty, and it can be easier to slip through in SM with a camera if you want to catch a photo of your buddy coming through the rift. But, you have to be aware of what you are doing. Lots of caves have those short bypasses (right of the keyhole, left of the cornflakes, is another nifty one, at Ginnie) but if you aren't aware you are in unlined tunnel it can be a mess.

"Line. Light. Cave."
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

You want me to list all my mistakes? Sorry, but the CDF doesn't have enough server space.

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Originally Posted by Greenwood_60

My mistakes:
1) Used too short of a spool trying to tie in to the mainline in OG. Grabbed my short spool rather than my long. Luckily my buddy had more, but the first one my buddy grabbed wasn't long enough so we had to run a third (end to end to end). The third one would have been long enough to make the entire run, but we only use about 10' of it.

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I just want to clarify something here. Did you use your safeties to continue onto the permanent line or did you have additional spools with you?

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2) Followed to cave and not the line. Ended up off the line in OG when around p800 the line goes off to the right and up through a really cool crack. The cave continues around without line and rejoins the line a short run later. My buddy notified me of my mistake a few feet past the crack.

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I have done this. Actually, both me and my buddy missed the turn. We both happened to be looking around and kept swimming straight. Next thing I know, I look down to reference the line and not only is it on the other wall, but it's white! Quick signal and turn around and we were back on the main line heading toward Challenge again. I'm not really sure what can be done to make that turn more obvious there. For our incident, even if it had been in the middle of the passage, we probably would have missed the turn because we both happened to be looking around the passage rather than referencing the line at the exact same time. The only way to avoid it is to not take your eyes off the line, but you don't see much of anything that way!


Beyond your level of training at this point, but I've also not marked Ts because there was already an arrow or 2 at the intersection that pointed in my exit direction. Came back on the same T from another direction (made a circuit), but was only about 90% sure it was the same T. I don't like not being 100% sure. Now all Ts get marked regardless of what markings they have on them. I also drop a marker every 3-4 minutes if I haven't seen a marker in that time (this is on white line only). The first few times I didn't do that the uncertainty of whether I was on the right line or had inadvertently "jumped" to another line (like in OG) wasn't a great feeling. It's a simple thing that takes no time at all (I use clothes pins) and gives me warm fuzzies when I'm on the exit side of the dive, especially if I'm in zero vis at that point!


Great thread!

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

You want me to list all my mistakes? Sorry, but the CDF doesn't have enough server space.

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Well, just start with the acquisition of purple gear and go from there.

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Originally Posted by RN

I just want to clarify something here. Did you use your safeties to continue onto the permanent line or did you have additional spools with you?

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I had two spools on me. I used one to tie off in OW. My buddy offered up the 2nd and 3rd spool/reel. I know to always keep that one safety spool for an emergency... and have recently decided to keep two on me. As I am getting more comfortable in my rig, and am adding things like a REAL reel. At first I figured we were better off with the bare minimum, while we gained the muscle memory needed for efficiently accessing all the storage locations.

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Originally Posted by RN

I have done this. Actually, both me and my buddy missed the turn. We both happened to be looking around and kept swimming straight. Next thing I know, I look down to reference the line and not only is it on the other wall, but it's white! Quick signal and turn around and we were back on the main line heading toward Challenge again. I'm not really sure what can be done to make that turn more obvious there. For our incident, even if it had been in the middle of the passage, we probably would have missed the turn because we both happened to be looking around the passage rather than referencing the line at the exact same time. The only way to avoid it is to not take your eyes off the line, but you don't see much of anything that way!

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I didn't get far enough in to see the white line. But I did manage to silt the place up a bit doing a 180'. We turned the dive within the next 100' (don't think we saw the 900' arrow), and had to get on the line to work back through my silt. For some reason, I was really excited to be on the line in <5' vis. I though it was really cool.

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Originally Posted by RN

Beyond your level of training at this point, but I've also not marked Ts because there was already an arrow or 2 at the intersection that pointed in my exit direction. Came back on the same T from another direction (made a circuit), but was only about 90% sure it was the same T. I don't like not being 100% sure. Now all Ts get marked regardless of what markings they have on them. I also drop a marker every 3-4 minutes if I haven't seen a marker in that time (this is on white line only). The first few times I didn't do that the uncertainty of whether I was on the right line or had inadvertently "jumped" to another line (like in OG) wasn't a great feeling. It's a simple thing that takes no time at all (I use clothes pins) and gives me warm fuzzies when I'm on the exit side of the dive, especially if I'm in zero vis at that point!

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I see. Looking back down on that line and realizing I didn't know which was was out was not fun. Made me realize a few things. It would be very easy to distrust the line arrows. The cave looks totally and completely different on the way out, so pay attention to unique details on the floor as they are the easiest details to recognize on the way out when direction is in question. Zip Ties on permanent line arrows are AWESOME! Between the Zip Tie and the patina on the arrows, I knew to trust them.

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Originally Posted by RN

Great thread!

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Thanks. I sat for a few minutes looking at the "post" button after writing it all up. My imagination got the best of me thinking about what the reactions would be to it.

Another really cool thread: http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...-cave-Training

I've done the "run out of spool thing", too! The first time, I went to pull out my safety spool, and my buddy looked at it and shook his head -- and I realized that was stupid. None of us had a spare spool (this was when we were Cave 1, and the primary reel had proven about ten feet too short) so we ended up cutting a little line off a spool and finishing the tie-in :)

I've made a ton of small mistakes, and will probably continue to make them -- sometimes, you make mistakes because you simply haven't encountered the question before, and sometimes the cave is teaching you that you need to be more attentive or more careful.

I WAS taught that, if you leave the line to go up and look at the top of a dome, or to surface in an air dome, you should tie off a spool to the line, with a marker to indicate your exit direction. I have violated that, for example when diving Hole in the Wall, where we went up into the domes and then back down under the duck-unders, but we were always swimming and maintaining body orientation (which is probably not a good excuse for getting that far off the line, actually). But if I'm going to surface, or stop, it's too easy to lose orientation, so I tie in and mark.

I don't think it pays off to be stingy with safety gear. Although I don't load my pockets with all the spools they can hold, I do always add one or two to the total number of spools we've calculated we'll need for the dive. Just makes life easier -- if nothing else, you may find a side passage you want to have a brief look at!