The only true FACT in the article...Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
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The only true FACT in the article...Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
I have to wonder, the author references "William Morgan who has done 10 years of research".....and references experienced divers having panic for no apparent reason. Do you think some of these "surveys" we've been asked to respond to from a "college student working on this or that thesis" has been a ruse, (or one of Morgan's TA's/graduate students)? Or what about that thread we had a while back about feeling uneasy on a dive, etc., are we fueling these authors with minor data they are inflating for their own personal gain or notoriety?
Just my two cents.....the hoops academia has to jump through to get their phd, tenure, full prof status, or what have you, is very competitive.
Mike - As a fellow EMT (retired), I, as well as you know the answer to that (journalist issue)... Never let the truth get in the way of a "good story..." ie. one that will generate readership/viewers and thus, advertising revenue... :mad: Controversy sells man... I got real good at avoiding the media on serious EMS calls.Quote:
Originally Posted by MORGAN
The only thing we can do is counter it with our own message - Get the training, follow the rules, stay within your limits, and it will work... might even enjoy it.
As a graduate student who has gotten survey responses from members of this and other diving forums once before, and who is preparing to do so once again for yet another research class, I have to honestly say that I have never given my data to anyone in any form aside from the finished paper. The original data has never been seen by anyone other than me. I belief in being honest with people and would never do something slimy like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
I wonder if in a true panic I would rip a regulator out of my mouth. I have a friend who doesn't like breathing from a regulator that breathes hard. I on the other hand prefer regulators that actually take a little work to breathe on. I trust regulators to provide me with air, and when I get stressed I have never felt like a regulator was inhibiting my breathing. With a regulator in my mouth I feel nice and relaxed. Perhaps it's an oral fixation like why some people smoke, or perhaps I'm crazy, and perhaps in a blind panic I would rip a regulator from my mouth. However, in the two "come to Jesus" moments I've had, I never once gave any thought to my regulator and removing it from my mouth or felt that it wasn't functioning right.
Libertarian,kind of... Rastafarian, nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
I really like Italian food, though - maybe I'm a Pastafarian!
Mike
Dr. Morgan is a respected sports psychologist. I'm sure he has had his share of grad students, etc. I think he's retired now. He has many publications in the field of sports, but this is the first I heard he ever studied cave divers and/or panic. I did a quick review of his publication list and didn't see anything at all on panic or cave diving. Mostly it's about the positive benefits of exercise on mental health. There must have been a grad student in there somewhere doing cave diving...?
edit: Found it:
1.
Academic Journal
Trait Anxiety Predicts Panic Behavior in Beginning Scuba Students.Detail Only Available By: W. P. Morgan. International Journal of Sports Medicine, May2004, Vol. 25 Issue 4, p314-322, 9p
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I have posted this before, but in over 50 years of diving, I have only had to share gas a handful of times, and in none was the person really out of air, or even had a real problem with the regulator. I have recovered divers that did have air available to them, but panicked, and tried to swim out of the cave. One ripped his mask off on exit (well attempted exit, he was going the wrong way).
In the early years of dive training, it was a requirement for students to do a "broken regulator" drill in the pool. It consisted of several tanks with a variety of malfunctioning regulators. Things like leaking exhaust valve, leaking inhalation diaphragm, freeflow, broken hose, etc. You had to swim from one tank to the next, holding your breath. You weren't allowed to go to the surface. If you couldn't solve the problem, you could go to your buddy for air. Divers that passed that drill are much less likely to panic over regulator problems then those that don't do the drill.
Forrest, you have just given me an idea for a shallow water drill for my next OW class. I think PADI would have a cow if I did it in the deep end, but I think this could be done within current standards in the shallow end. I could make a game out of it.....musical tanks or such. If we can do a simulated CESA, I can't see why we can't do this drill you outlined.
I too have collected data from members of the forum. Nothing sneaky about it. And it has in no way fueled my noteriety or resulted in personal gain (my university likes us to publish, but does not require it, so my job is secure without publications). I have presented findings at various psychology conferences, but nothing published yet - maybe next year if I can get off my lazy butt and write it up (so much easier talking about it). No one has called or interviewed me for any articles in magazines or newspapers or anything else for that matter.
in sum, from the data I've gathered comparisons of scuba divers and nondivers show that scuba divers are lower in trait anxiety, higher in self-esteem, less socially inclined, more open to new ideas, and more inventive (as compared to nondivers). They also are higher in thrill seeking, more easily bored, and more likely to try exotic food. Cave divers are the worst of the lot with all the traits of the scuba diver compared to nondivers, but more of it, so they ratchet everything up a notch (less anxious, even higher in self-esteem, etc.). Except for two things. They exhibit the highest level of impulse control of the three groups (whereas nondivers and scuba divers are similar). And thrill seeking and boredom are on par with nondivers. It is odd to me that scuba divers show high thrill seeking, but cave divers do not. I can only speculate that it is thrill-seeking that may at first attract one to scuba, but those that move on to cave diving have perhaps sated the thrill-seeking aspects of their personality! However, thrill-seeking wanes with age and experience, so it may be that cave divers as a group are simply a bit older and wiser than scuba divers (who do tend to be younger). And of course good impulse control is a nice characteristic for cave divers - maybe even required for successful completion of training!
We have often thought of giving an anxiety survey to beginning scuba students in our academic dive program to identify those likely to experience difficulties in the pool, but so far it's just so obvious that a formal survey is not needed. They are nervous, a bit frightened, hesitant at doing skills, and tend to do them poorly. Even the swim test (survival float especially) shows us the nervous nellies. The ones that scare me are the ones that do everything with ease....we give them a bit of "extra" attention.
Until a fews ago we did the "musical tanks" skills FW mentioned, and we had a "final exam" we called Shark Night. With foil in the mask they swam around the pool with one hand on the side of the pool - all single file. Then we'd toss stuff into the pool ahead of them. chairs, desks, tables, ladders, poles, basketball hoops, fish nets, ropes, etc. Assistants on scuba then "sneak" up on the unsuspecting student and undo weight belt buckles, turn off air, pull regs out, flood masks, unbuckle or remove fin straps, etc. Of course the most difficulty usually came from the fellow students who would bump into them when they stopped to figure out something. The agencies (YMCA and NAUI) told us we couldn't do Shark Night anymore. I don't know how they found out we were doing that, but they actually sent us a letter saying we were not permitted to do it anymore.
But I can tell you that Shark Night was the most feared final exam on campus. And when over, the students had a confidence that you could easily see in their eyes. It really brought home the idea that you can solve all problems underwater. We have also been doing studies on how scuba training affects self-efficacy (Bev? you here?), self-esteem, body image, confidence, etc.
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This is a great and fun drill, we did this at NC State pool for NAUI OW cert.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
About the hoops of academia, talking from a point of view of a researcher: IT is true, we need to publish or perish but the cost is higher if you publish something that one cannot reproduce, is based on false data, or it is plagiarism. All of these are academic death, so I think no researcher that respects him/herself provokes these in their knowledge...
I am not sure about psychology it is a quite different science. In computer science we start from hypothesis, model in theory, simulation and experiment in practice and only at this time you can publish something that has impact. Your peers will judge this and say if you can be published.
Maybe this magazine is not peer reviewed and I am not sure how respectable it is.
Edit: A closer look: this magazine is not scientific and the writer is not a psychologist. I do not know about Dr. Morgan, but I guess the ref. to his name is the only scientific part to this writeup.