Toys and Notes left in the cave

In my opinion anything taken into these amazing places and left behind is trash. If there were any possible way to safely go into these caves without our nylon line, plastic line arrows and cookies, I would leave them on the surface, BUT since we do want to get back to the surface.......they are a necessary evil.

We create enough impact on these sites by simply going into them. Leaving our trash inside is an insult to nature.

I believe the only thing that should be left in the cave is line, arrows and necessary dirctional markers. Even survey markers should eventually be taken out after the survey is finished.

I also think that the only historical markers are the lines and arrows left behind by the original explorers. They should never be taken out of the cave. The exception to this would old deteriorated lines, but old markers should be placed on the new lines in their original positions.

Safe diving,
Brian

This whole note business sounded uncalled for.

I love seeing survey frogs in all the different caves. The love bunny at Devils is awesome funny! I thought the geo-cashe traveling mask was really cool. Would love to have found that.

But the inflatable sex doll that was at the Henkle was in really poor taste and had to be removed and trashed. Big open mouth with "park you scooter here!"

The other thing that I don't like seeing in caves is memorial stone and plaques. The ones that are in now I think are fine. But I hate being reminded of death while my main concern is staying alive. Really would not like to see any more placed in the systems.

Small thing every once and a while are nice. They help imprint that spot and moment in time into my memory. That to me increase the cave diving experience for me.

Cheers!!

Kevin

stuff like the little skeleton hanging on the line in the crypt isn't hurting anything.
i don't get all the fuss.
having said that, the note left in devils is another thing altogether.

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Originally Posted by FW

But you might not find it funny if there were dozens, or even hundreds of that type of note cluttering up the lines.

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Everything in moderation.

I find it funny that some love the bats, some hate the bats but most seem to think keeping them there is the right thing to do..... But when they were first put there they were not landmarks, and if you remove them we will find other ways to identify where we are/were.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying to add crap just to add crap and I really do think things can be taken too far.... But a little levity in the form of a plastic skeleton, or a rubber chicken once in a while does not hurt anything.

About ten years ago we made a dive in Little River on Halloween and upon turning the corner at the Mud Tunnel line, sitting on Table Rock was a jack-o-lantern wearing a hockey mask. Now THAT was a danger to me, because I laughed so hard I almost choked!

Items in the cave - the bats, Godzilla, the skeleton, Easter eggs at Easter, a Christmas ornament here or there, Jason the jack-o-lantern, hide-the-mask - don't bother me a bit, as long as it doesn't get excessive.

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Items in the cave - the bats, Godzilla, the skeleton, Easter eggs at Easter, a Christmas ornament here or there, Jason the jack-o-lantern, hide-the-mask - don't bother me a bit, as long as it doesn't get excessive.

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The big problem is "when does it get excessive?"

I agree with Brian, it is better to have nothing in the caves. I am happiest when I find a cave with no line, or other man made stuff in it. Sadly I am guilty of leaving a lot of line in caves over the years. I also have been way back in virgin caves, and found trash that had washed in through some sinkhole, like at JB.

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Originally Posted by FW

The big problem is "when does it get excessive?"

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In my opinion, it becomes excessive at a very low level - approaching zero.

Mike

Im just curious, but there has been much discussion on this and the wetnotes, but did no one notice the line? Or do I think its a bigger issue then it is? Its been like that for the last few weeks and from the looks the outter layer is all frayed, and I kicked myself for not posting it earlier (forgot). Just wondering.

I'm kind of going with historical as well. Godzilla in the Godzilla room, the bats at Ginnie, Barbie and the Gator at Dos Ojos.

As to notes....shouldn't it be part of the plan? Like pinning or putting a cookie on a reel being in place of a note. No trash and the last one out or however it is planned, pulls the pin/cookie.

In Mexico we have used bendy skeletons on a funny instead of a cookie, but we pull them out when we pull the reel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

About ten years ago we made a dive in Little River on Halloween and upon turning the corner at the Mud Tunnel line, sitting on Table Rock was a jack-o-lantern wearing a hockey mask. Now THAT was a danger to me, because I laughed so hard I almost choked!

Items in the cave - the bats, Godzilla, the skeleton, Easter eggs at Easter, a Christmas ornament here or there, Jason the jack-o-lantern, hide-the-mask - don't bother me a bit, as long as it doesn't get excessive.

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Well Sludge, if it was ten years ago, it may have been my jack-o-lantern, but I didn't put the hockey mask on it. For a while painted concrete "yard art" was all the rage at Little River, Peacock and Ginnie, and it popped up all over the cave depending on the whim of whatever dive team was willing to make the effort to move it. Placed the jack-o-lantern in Little River, on Table Rock, the fall of '99 if I remember correctly.