Wakulla Springs

If only WKPP divers are qualified to Dive in Wakulla then the current limits on use of a public asset are correct and defensible.

If OTOH there are other divers who are sufficiently qualified, have demonstrated the appropriate level of concern regarding cave conservation, etc. denying access to a public asset is wrong and indefensible.

Who is ready to defend the claim that there are *no* other qualified divers outside the WKPP?

Tobin

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

There has been accusations/comments that there is grafitti at the cavern/open water area of several caves,and obviously the state wants to understand this more before allowing the people into their crown jewel. People who have displayed pictures of this grafitti have so out of context of explaining the sites,because these weren't state parks, but sites without controlled access. Still this gives them concern,and rightfully so. We can claim as cave divers we don't cause this,and unfortunately there is that .01% that has caused some,leaving the 99.99% to have to address to consequences-but the good news is the cave diving community showed its intolerence of cave grafitti by charging someone ,and they had to make restitution under Florida law. Somebody who will be left nameless has claimed that cave divers bored during decompression cause the grafitti in the cavern area,but why don't we have grafitti at Indian,Alachua,Morgan,Diepolder to name a few,these places have long decompression obligations,but they also don't allow open water diving. You can make any inferences for yourself.

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This reminds me of a thread in the past week about recent damage in Devils (I believe) where someone carved their initials in the clay. I can not find the thread. Can someone point me to it please? Thank you. Terry Koritz

Asking those who are active in participation in the ongoing access management plan proposal...

Is the process to workup a proposal access management plan too delicate to share with us for fear that comments here will do more harm than good? If not, could one of those involved in this higher level volunteer committee outline the general idea for us (some proposed rules or requirements)?

"yes, too delicate..." & "No, can't share" is something I'll (grudgingly) accept given recent tangental discussions off topic and fear of derailment, but I'd like to know if progress is being made and if there is anything we can do to help Without hurting the process of proposals up for consideration... beyond the letters written.

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Originally Posted by DogHouseDiver

Asking those who are active in participation in the ongoing access management plan proposal...

Is the process to workup a proposal access management plan too delicate to share with us for fear that comments here will do more harm than good? If not, could one of those involved in this higher level volunteer committee outline the general idea for us (some proposed rules or requirements)?

"yes, too delicate..." & "No, can't share" is something I'll (grudgingly) accept given recent tangental discussions off topic and fear of derailment, but I'd like to know if progress is being made and if there is anything we can do to help Without hurting the process of proposals up for consideration... beyond the letters written.

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The participation by members of the cave diving community is very small. I am more than willing to share the comments I was asked to give,but that is a very tiny part of the whole process. This will go through different levels of DEP,but I have gotten feedback that questions have been asked across many state lines. There is big picture to this process,that we are only one step.

I was just wondering if there was an outline of the proposed access model/rules "we" think "they" (the DEP, et al) is open to considering, because there are varying opinions on full access versus the Emerald model and many in between. Therefore I wanted an idea of what the cave community has decided to put forth as its most internally agreeable model. Now that "we" have their attention and they're not just brushing us off wholesale, it appears that fewer voices with a singular model at this point might be better. Thanks Kelly, and to the other who PM'd me.

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Originally Posted by tkoritz

This reminds me of a thread in the past week about recent damage in Devils (I believe) where someone carved their initials in the clay. I can not find the thread. Can someone point me to it please? Thank you. Terry Koritz

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The original poster asked that the thread be removed and it was. Bill

I have read all the posts in this thread twice now. I have been gathering information and still need lots more. I am really sick of the rants and raves about all the misinformation posted. But I am far more sick of all the “if you just want information then ask?” Folks are asking and I do not see it forthcoming.

I have a strong financial interest in Wakulla opening. The primary reason is Wakulla County is my home and I have lots of friends here. This county needs relief through economic growth that was taken away when the fishing ban was handed down. Wakulla County does in fact hold the “Crown Jewel” (as many put it) of spring diving in Florida. The proof is in the pudding just read all the posts and articles about it. For way too long, this crown jewel has been locked away from equal access to the public as outlined in the current park management plan. The land is held in public trust but yet the public is not trusted with it? The fact is, there will always be those who we can’t trust. There simply isn’t enough jail space to house them all. It is not however the majority of the public and certainly the majority of the divers in this world. So why are we treated like a minority??
Let’s look at the issues and how we can dispel them or at least provide the proper information to garner the result we want.

1. Manatees: Someone show me proof that divers injure or even scare a manatee? Also provide the proof that there is peaceful coexistence between the two?

2. Artifacts: Bring forth the proof that divers have disturbed artifacts, vandalized caves? (lets put emphasis on all divers including those currently holding artifacts in their possession and those who moved or altered artifacts during dives. YES WE KNOW WHO WAS THERE WHEN IT WAS DONE), Then show me what was done about it? Also include measures that effectively stop these damages.

3. Swimmers: Bring forth evidence that swimmers and divers do not mix? Also include evidence that swimmers and divers actually do get along.

4. Economic Impact: Bring forth all information pertaining to the economic impact diving has in Florida. Then get specific to each county. For those within the WKPP, GUE or Extreme Exposure, bring forth the revenues of these companies for the years 2007-2010. (I hope this is specific enough). I have Jackson County data and the studies of Dr. Huth.

5. Diving at Wakulla: Bring forth a list of all divers who have or are currently diving at Wakulla either on permits or not. I have the list of the DEP team from 2011.

What I will provide is a comprehensive presentation of all facts, data and statistics gathered. Please do not be afraid to tell the truth especially if you are one of the ones crying about misinformation. You all know who you are and it’s time to be big boys and girls and stop hiding behind the lock! Post all here or PM it to me. Either way, let’s move forward and get the ball rolling. Perhaps some of the organizations will even help out this time. Like Wakulla County BOCC, chamber of commerce and the TDC. Let’s get the tax dollars back into Wakulla County.

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Originally Posted by speleodiver

I have read all the posts in this thread twice now. I have been gathering information and still need lots more. I am really sick of the rants and raves about all the misinformation posted. But I am far more sick of all the “if you just want information then ask?” Folks are asking and I do not see it forthcoming.

I have a strong financial interest in Wakulla opening. The primary reason is Wakulla County is my home and I have lots of friends here. This county needs relief through economic growth that was taken away when the fishing ban was handed down. Wakulla County does in fact hold the “Crown Jewel” (as many put it) of spring diving in Florida. The proof is in the pudding just read all the posts and articles about it. For way too long, this crown jewel has been locked away from equal access to the public as outlined in the current park management plan. The land is held in public trust but yet the public is not trusted with it? The fact is, there will always be those who we can’t trust. There simply isn’t enough jail space to house them all. It is not however the majority of the public and certainly the majority of the divers in this world. So why are we treated like a minority??
Let’s look at the issues and how we can dispel them or at least provide the proper information to garner the result we want.

1. Manatees: Someone show me proof that divers injure or even scare a manatee? Also provide the proof that there is peaceful coexistence between the two?

2. Artifacts: Bring forth the proof that divers have disturbed artifacts, vandalized caves? (lets put emphasis on all divers including those currently holding artifacts in their possession and those who moved or altered artifacts during dives. YES WE KNOW WHO WAS THERE WHEN IT WAS DONE), Then show me what was done about it? Also include measures that effectively stop these damages.

3. Swimmers: Bring forth evidence that swimmers and divers do not mix? Also include evidence that swimmers and divers actually do get along.

4. Economic Impact: Bring forth all information pertaining to the economic impact diving has in Florida. Then get specific to each county. For those within the WKPP, GUE or Extreme Exposure, bring forth the revenues of these companies for the years 2007-2010. (I hope this is specific enough). I have Jackson County data and the studies of Dr. Huth.

5. Diving at Wakulla: Bring forth a list of all divers who have or are currently diving at Wakulla either on permits or not. I have the list of the DEP team from 2011.

What I will provide is a comprehensive presentation of all facts, data and statistics gathered. Please do not be afraid to tell the truth especially if you are one of the ones crying about misinformation. You all know who you are and it’s time to be big boys and girls and stop hiding behind the lock! Post all here or PM it to me. Either way, let’s move forward and get the ball rolling. Perhaps some of the organizations will even help out this time. Like Wakulla County BOCC, chamber of commerce and the TDC. Let’s get the tax dollars back into Wakulla County.

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I think this is the right approach to take. The last effort and strong arm tactics were not going to work. I thought the meetings would help but it didnt. Hit them with facts and proof and then we have a chance.

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Originally Posted by speleodiver

I have read all the posts in this thread twice now. I have been gathering information and still need lots more. I am really sick of the rants and raves about all the misinformation posted. But I am far more sick of all the “if you just want information then ask?” Folks are asking and I do not see it forthcoming.

I have a strong financial interest in Wakulla opening. The primary reason is Wakulla County is my home and I have lots of friends here. This county needs relief through economic growth that was taken away when the fishing ban was handed down. Wakulla County does in fact hold the “Crown Jewel” (as many put it) of spring diving in Florida. The proof is in the pudding just read all the posts and articles about it. For way too long, this crown jewel has been locked away from equal access to the public as outlined in the current park management plan. The land is held in public trust but yet the public is not trusted with it? The fact is, there will always be those who we can’t trust. There simply isn’t enough jail space to house them all. It is not however the majority of the public and certainly the majority of the divers in this world. So why are we treated like a minority??
Let’s look at the issues and how we can dispel them or at least provide the proper information to garner the result we want.

1. Manatees: Someone show me proof that divers injure or even scare a manatee? Also provide the proof that there is peaceful coexistence between the two?

2. Artifacts: Bring forth the proof that divers have disturbed artifacts, vandalized caves? (lets put emphasis on all divers including those currently holding artifacts in their possession and those who moved or altered artifacts during dives. YES WE KNOW WHO WAS THERE WHEN IT WAS DONE), Then show me what was done about it? Also include measures that effectively stop these damages.

3. Swimmers: Bring forth evidence that swimmers and divers do not mix? Also include evidence that swimmers and divers actually do get along.

4. Economic Impact: Bring forth all information pertaining to the economic impact diving has in Florida. Then get specific to each county. For those within the WKPP, GUE or Extreme Exposure, bring forth the revenues of these companies for the years 2007-2010. (I hope this is specific enough). I have Jackson County data and the studies of Dr. Huth.

5. Diving at Wakulla: Bring forth a list of all divers who have or are currently diving at Wakulla either on permits or not. I have the list of the DEP team from 2011.

What I will provide is a comprehensive presentation of all facts, data and statistics gathered. Please do not be afraid to tell the truth especially if you are one of the ones crying about misinformation. You all know who you are and it’s time to be big boys and girls and stop hiding behind the lock! Post all here or PM it to me. Either way, let’s move forward and get the ball rolling. Perhaps some of the organizations will even help out this time. Like Wakulla County BOCC, chamber of commerce and the TDC. Let’s get the tax dollars back into Wakulla County.

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But there were two things not on this list that we will never fix,and I think it killed the process more than anything else. I haven't listed it specifically because it is conjecture on my part,or basically I can't get anyone to say that was it,but it resonates very strongly in the land owner's decision making process.
There are other properties in Wakulla Co that can be opened up,and there are some cave divers that have the appropriate contacts.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Carlisle

I thought the meetings would help but it didnt..

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The meetings really did work and it made awareness that could never have occurred. This did lay a very good foundation,and shows positive interaction with the cave diving community and the local community. We presented concise and cogent discussion points,where may people were discussing from emotion.