Any news from Ginnie today?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sean Barnes

I am trying something new when I start reading the threads. I start with the first page and then jump to the last to see how fast people change the subject of the original.

---

You can see how fast Godwin's Law is invoked

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sean Barnes

I am trying something new when I start reading the threads. I start with the first page and then jump to the last to see how fast people change the subject of the original.

---

Very true, but the context also matters...conversations about the 1) transparency in accident reporting 2) the timeliness of releasing accident reports 3) efficacy of accident analysis 4) people's attitudes towards accident analysis - are all rather pertinent to the overall topic.

Whether or not these distract enough and should be their own thread is more of an administrative question (to me). That the conversations happen at all is what I find important. And isn't this kinda the way human conversations tend to go anyway?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

You can see how fast Godwin's Law is invoked

---

Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law of Nazi analogies, is an Internet adage asserting that "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler becomes more likely. Wikipedia

Come to think of it, does anyone know how does one end up in charge of IUCRR and if this is a transparent process of election and accountability? Their web site speaks about some sort of board of directors, but there is no explanation whatsoever about how directors get appointed. Also, only Ken Hill is listed as director (from 2005 on) which raises the question of whether this "board" is actually a one person thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oceancurrent

Come to think of it, does anyone know how does one end up in charge of IUCRR and if this is a transparent process of election and accountability? Their web site speaks about some sort of board of directors, but there is no explanation whatsoever about how directors get appointed. Also, only Ken Hill is listed as director (from 2005 on) which raises the question of whether this "board" is actually a one person thing.

---

Ken is a very approachable person and doesn't visit these forums, if you have questions I would contact him directly. Why is he in charge? This probably goes back to Henry Nicholson who bridged the gap between law enforcement and cave divers, with him being the chief of police in Chiefland. Ken has similar back ground.

Ken Hill is a good guy, he is the former Dept. of Justice. I worked with him during the first potential Eagles Nest closure after the Christmas Day incident with the father and son. His "See something say something" form of self-policing plan was enough for the area FWC officials to take back to Tallahassee and keep the site open without the addition of regulations or closure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrki

I'm also in the group of idiots that got that impression. Apparently there's more of us. Or maybe there's just one idiot. Maybe not an idiot, just an arrogant sphincter.

---

Well, if you claim you learned something but can't say what it is... yes, you likely are an idiot. Sorry.

Good to know about Ken's contributions and impression on people who know him. He sounds like a good guy.

Unfortunately, one can also see where the need-to-know basis of law enforcement culture ("us against them" type distrust) that is running in IUCRR's veins runs against the open reporting and analysis collaborative culture existent in other technical fields (and pioneered by Sheck in cave diving). We have heard capable divers say that while IUCRR continues to be run in this manner, they will not support it. We have even seen dissent within IUCRR on this issue that manifests in information leaks. The claim is that the organization does not reflect the views of the community but the views of one person with respect to supporting the accident analysis process.

We do need an organization like IUCRR, but we also need it to be transparent and release the accident reports that it holds to the community in a reasonable timeframe. Perceived liability, need to know basis, distrust, etc does not have place in a healthy technical community with a robust accident analysis process.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oceancurrent

Good to know about Ken's contributions and impression on people who know him. He sounds like a good guy.

Unfortunately, one can also see where the need-to-know basis of law enforcement culture ("us against them" type distrust) that is running in IUCRR's veins runs against the open reporting and analysis collaborative culture existent in other technical fields (and pioneered by Sheck in cave diving). We have heard capable divers say that while IUCRR continues to be run in this manner, they will not support it. We have even seen dissent within IUCRR on this issue that manifests in information leaks. The claim is that the organization does not reflect the views of the community but the views of one person with respect to supporting the accident analysis process.

We do need an organization like IUCRR, but we also need it to be transparent and release the accident reports that it holds to the community in a reasonable timeframe. Perceived liability, need to know basis, distrust, etc does not have place in a healthy technical community with a robust accident analysis process.

---

I totally agree