Super Wal-Mart/Alachua Sink

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11-04-2005 07:38 AM
Ken Hill

Cindy,
Will try to look up what's available. I have been after the N -S to hire an attorney so we can plan a strategy. A law office will have Lexus-Nexus on-line and the job will be a snap. In short, as I understand it, we have the cave protection act but Florida has "no settled law" concerning the ownership of the water in the karst nor the protection of species within from unknowing damage caused by actions from without.

There may be someone on this board with helpful infor re: critters, that would be great. ie: other state law other state precedents.

Re; The easement, that was recommended to them two years ago in order to reduce liability and make a conservation statement. It was not done. Also the easement may make a difference as to the protections afforded the critters within the easement and their possible travel or prevented within the karst. Not trying to "muddy" but to look into using all available resources. The office of the AVP needs to get busy and "do" rather than to "study" and not do.

/Ken
11-04-2005 08:40 AM
jdsffa

walmart

I am glad that the idea of a petition took off like this just tell me what i can do to help
John
11-04-2005 09:04 AM
Genesis

Its very unlikely that a conservation easement on the land where the sink is could be used to influence OTHER land which is over the cave itself.

Beware; if it is used that way then there is a "taking" problem and once again the government is going to have to compensate the present landowner!

You definitely don't want the city or county on the other side of a lawsuit, opposing you, because the alternative is that they have to pay the landowner millions in compensation for the dimuation of their property value.

That sort of thing could make those government agencies extremely uncooperative with regards to cave-diving in the future!
11-14-2005 05:34 AM
Cindy

There was a meeting in Alachua on Sunday to discuss the Wal Mart. Unfortunatly I only got the notice last night. I am going to try and make it to the next meeting. They don't give much notice of these things. It was posted on Friday and the meeting was Sunday. I will try to be more attentive in the future. Cindy :(
11-15-2005 09:04 PM
Cindy

Just back from the meeting at High Springs and the new film on Wal Mart. It's pretty scary. The movie showed a river where toxic chemicals leaked into the water because Wal Mart keeps it's pesticides and chemicals stored out doors. They ended up suing the company. Case after case of groups and towns ripped off and lied to. The only way to solve this problem is to stop them BEFORE they build. Suwannee River Water Management has to issue permits before they can build. They have the ability to stop the damage to the cave and possible contamination of the groundwater now! They need to hold the permits for now other reason than the fact that none of the studies they have say anything about the cave. There needs to be better and independent environmental study done. Alachua was dye traced to Hornsby and in ten days anything that is spilled or dumped into the water at the Wal Mart will empty into the Suwannee River. Please call the SRWM and voice how you feel about this matter. Their phone number is 386-362-1001,Cindy Butler
11-15-2005 10:59 PM
Genesis

That movie has already been roundly discredited Cindy. It is straight out of the Michael Moore playbook (even though he didn't direct it.)

There have been several exposes already on it, particularly related to the various claims of WalMart intentionally violating environmental laws and intentionally running people out of business.

In short, its a propaganda piece created by folks who don't like the company.

Before you take that as a foundation for action, please make sure you research your material. There is nothing worse than getting caught using a discredited source when you go in front of a public policy-making body to try to get something blocked - or done.
11-16-2005 04:36 AM
Cindy

Well I am sorry but I can't just sit by and watch this happen. I am not making any claims that I have not seen with my own eyes and have personal knowlege of. I know they don't return their calls and are ignoring the situation. I know that people who have told me they would help have done nothing. I know the cave is dye traced to Hornsby springs and any of those nice bags of chemicals I see stored outside at the large stores will end up in the water. I know with very little exposure to run off caused by this store will be harmful. I am not even going there but I have had an expert look at this issue and he has told me that the cave will be damaged. All I want is more environmental study done by a group that is not paid to do them for that company. How about an environmental study that even mentions the cave! If it gets built it will be impossible to correct the situation. It needs to be stopped now. What inspired me about the movie were the people who were able to keep Wal Mart out of the communities. The reminder about how they store the chemicals was good. Have you even seen the movie or do you just read your pro-wall mart sites? What ever your personal beliefs this entire issue of the movie was a motivater for me, not something I plan on quoting. I am very tired of listening to people say this can't be stopped like Wal Mart is some sort of a god. I may not stop it but I am not sitting on my hind end and doing nothing. Cindy Butler
11-16-2005 10:11 AM
bigdave

A couple of things worth noting:

1) Movie "documentaries" usually are nothing of the sort, as Karl notes. Here's an interesting article on the subject.

http://www.freemarketproject.org/new...ws20051108.asp

2) This is a prime commercial property. If WalMart is stopped, the property might be carved up and developed piece by piece. In any case, there is probably too much money at stake for the owner to let it just sit there.

Plainly we all want to protect the caves and water resources, but it will be very difficult in this case due to the dollars involved. If there were a way to mitigate the impact of this development, that might be the best possible outcome....

BD
11-16-2005 02:56 PM
Gary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy

I may not stop it but I am not sitting on my hind end and doing nothing. Cindy Butler

Hurray!

That pdf on pre-loading techniques was scary. I certainly don't want anybody collasping the domes and/or filling and caulking the holes.

Bad! Bad!
11-16-2005 05:43 PM
Cindy

Quote:

A couple of things worth noting:

1) Movie "documentaries" usually are nothing of the sort, as Karl notes. Here's an interesting article on the subject.

I'M WELL AWARE IT'S HOLLYWOOD>I WAS AN EXTRA IN MOVIES BEFORE YOU WERE BORN INCLUDING WATERS JOURNEY> THE CAVE DOES NOT RUN UNDER SONNY'S BBQ. THE MOVIE DID PRESENT BOTH SIDES BUT IT WAS DEFINITELY TWISTED> I AM QUITE AWARE OF THAT AND DON"T INTEND TO USE IT AS A REFERENCE> THEY WERE AN INSPIRATION ONLY> DID YOU READ MY POST OR JUST REACT?

Quote:

http://www.freemarketproject.org/new...ws20051108.asp

2) This is a prime commercial property. If WalMart is stopped, the property might be carved up and developed piece by piece. In any case, there is probably too much money at stake for the owner to let it just sit there.

(THAT"S FINE JUST AS LONG AS THEY KEEP THE GAS PUMPS< AUTO REPAIR WASTE CONTAINMENT AND HUGE BUILDING OFF THE CAVE, THE ONE THEY PLAN IS 290,000 SQUARE FEET>

Quote:

Plainly we all want to protect the caves and water resources, but it will be very difficult in this case due to the dollars involved. If there were a way to mitigate the impact of this development, that might be the best possible outcome....

I THINK THE NSS IS WORKING ON THE HOW TO HANDLE THE DAY AFTER STUFF> I AM NOT> CINDY BUTLER

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