Ginnie Cave DPV

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Originally Posted by bamafan

Attachment 17826
But anyway I definitely don't call this sidemount and towards the end of the dive around 9:57 or so it appears the diver is actually standing up in the cave to turn around.

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I watched some of the video, and really hard to determine anything because it isn't cinema verite. I guess a question one could ask with the many GoPros out there, do people stage themselves to take better video, or be better subjects, and this puts more stress on the cave?

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BOD members of the CDS ...... BOD members of the CDS......BOD..... CDS .......... CDS ....

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I understand that you don't like the CDS, which is obvious from other postings. That's okay, not everyone likes the CDS, and not everyone likes all the other alphabet soups of agencies out there that train cave divers. I have been a CDS member for 24 years, and I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly,but for the most part I tend to feel we are better off with having them. You are right board members do need to represent the agency and their mission in things that they do,but being a board member doesn't mean you are highly experienced, it means you have been a CDS member for at least 1 year. If there is something you feel that is inappropriate or perhaps damaging to the caves, have you contacted that person directly or those people directly?

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

IIf there is something you feel that is inappropriate or perhaps damaging to the caves, have you contacted that person directly or those people directly?

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Not sure about Bamafan but in 2016 I actually contacted the individual in question by message regarding a prior video (also with lack of skills shown) and by commenting on this video on youtube a few weeks ago when he put it online. The original message did not yield any response and the comments on the last video were simply deleted.
The bod member in question surely thinks I'm just another a-hole and I won't argue with that. But the fact that he thinks the skills shown by his subject(s) are ok I would dispute. They are not and they are unworthy of an agency that cares highly about conservation.

Kelly the only beef I have with the CDS is that I don't feel they should be in the training business. I would support them if all they did was conservation, help gain cave access and the such. In my opinion they are no better or no worse than most other training agencies. I would definitely rank them below GUE though and I am not GUE trained. It just seems to me that the members are often subsidizing the instructors and what good does that do the community if they are not providing the absolute best training there is. Just look at the last few years of deaths cave diving. It certainly seems a disproportionate percentage of those divers were CDS trained. This thread was about the new requirements of cert cards at Ginnie and I feel that if the CDS was a leader in training and setting the standard then a lot of this wouldn't be happening. It is sad when no one seems to take offense to the apparent lack of skills, awareness and conservation mindset that this particular BOD continues to exhibit. As far as reaching out to him he just shuts down any kind of critique at all. I know he claims to have taken some classes from Edd and I don't know if that is true or not as I can't imagine Edd would pass someone who can't even do a proper frog kick. I will be the CDS's biggest fan if they would just quit doing stupid stuff and actually act like a professional agency rather than just another clueless training agency that tries to hide behind their other parts of their mission which they only give lip service to.

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Originally Posted by bamafan

. It just seems to me that the members are often subsidizing the instructors
It certainly seems a disproportionate percentage of those divers were CDS trained.
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Interesting comments, (truly curious and not a flame), how does my membership subsidize instructors, and rarely if ever when there is a fatality do I ever hear what agency they help a certification through- without names what incidents were these CDS trained cave divers?

From my perspective when the training and number of cave divers were at the peek during the mid-90s, you basically had CDS and NACD divers. Even with these large numbers of divers the caves were in great shape. Now you with the proliferation of agencies, and less cave divers, they caves show more damage. Can we blame that solely on the CDS, or is there really a greater problem?

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Originally Posted by nakatomi

Not sure about Bamafan but in 2016 I actually contacted the individual in question by message regarding a prior video (also with lack of skills shown) and by commenting on this video on youtube a few weeks ago when he put it online. The original message did not yield any response and the comments on the last video were simply deleted.
The bod member in question surely thinks I'm just another a-hole and I won't argue with that. But the fact that he thinks the skills shown by his subject(s) are ok I would dispute. They are not and they are unworthy of an agency that cares highly about conservation.

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The paradigm seems to be if you put the videos on a public site then you can anticipate getting critiqued and getting commentary. The double edge sword of social media.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

rarely if ever when there is a fatality do I ever hear what agency they help a certification through- without names what incidents were these CDS trained cave divers?

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Well let me look on the CDS website where they have the recent accident analysis that they are supposed to track by their bylaws. Oh wait it isn't there.

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Originally Posted by bamafan

Well let me look on the CDS website where they have the recent accident analysis that they are supposed to track by their bylaws. Oh wait it isn't there.

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Tough to do an accident analysis when the only info you’re givin is bits and pieces of what happened.

Wagons circle up and it’s road block after road block.

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Originally Posted by bamafan

Well let me look on the CDS website where they have the recent accident analysis that they are supposed to track by their bylaws. Oh wait it isn't there.

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"Just look at the last few years of deaths cave diving. It certainly seems a disproportionate percentage of those divers were CDS trained"- I have looked at the IUCRR web site and don't see certifying agencies. Your comment may have statistical significance since it has been shown that a majority of cave certs come from other agencies than the CDS. I was hoping you could help provide the data for your claim.

Kelly it is all rumor mill as no one actually tracks it and most of the instructors who teach for CDS also teach for other agencies so say the 2 guys who died in EN were from what I understand trained by a CDS instructor. Now did he issue another agencies card instead of CDS. I certainly don't have that information and this is something I sincerely believe the CDS should track if at all possible. I would gladly donate to this. I think there is a conflict of interest here as the statistics could make certain agencies or people look bad and thus I wonder if this isn't why very little accident investigation is done?

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Originally Posted by Draker

Did somebody say photos?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...20ab2f04c2.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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Are you looking for those missing bottles in Eagles Nest again?