Negativity in Cave Diving Politics

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Originally Posted by PfcAJ

There's quite a few state parks that don't allow scuba diving but have research permit teams that go in occasionally and dive. Silver Springs, Weeki, Werner Boyce, Wekiwa, Natural Bridge Battlefield, I'm SURE there are others. Other parks put limitations on non-permit divers, such as Madison, WSPSSP, and Manatee.

One thing that needs to always be reiterated is that the WKPP doesn't have access to just roll up whenever and go do a dive for grins and giggles. I'd LOVE to barrel off into B-Tunnel, but I can't. That's just the reality of it. All the plans are submitted to the park beforehand for approval, and that's been my experience at any permit-only dive site across the state.

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Couldn't agree more. The ability to dive a site that is closed to recreational diving comes at a price. There 18 pages of items on the permit with rules that you have to follow. There is a pre-dive plan that requires requests at different levels. The dive itself has to go as planned, then the post-dive report. I did a dive weekend before last, and the post -dive report with crunching the data took a few hours. Getting water quality analysis equipment takes me a couple hours to prep for the dive as well. All this is done, and sometimes the dive gets cancelled because of less than optimal conditions.

In light of the unfolding NACD fiasco I'll chime in on some personal opinion. I'll start by saying I've never taken a class with RN and outside of purchasing a CO analyzer I have no axe to grind either way. What I will say is the way the politics are being spun is shameful. The fact that the people who just resigned cannot freely speak because of a confidentiality agreement puts them at a gross disadvantage, especially in the court of public opinion which in some cases affect their livelihoods.

If this is the incident I've heard RUMORS of, the complaint was brought up by a competing instructor and their student. It was investigated by another agency who unfounded the complaint. It's also very convenient that the vote that brought this recent suspension would likely not have gone the way it did if the resigning BODs were still on the board.

To highlight the fairness of this, I would like to make mention of an incident I have direct knowledge of. I know that one of the sitting BODs taught a couple of my dive buddies two separate cave courses. After completion of those courses, they stated "we never once did a valve drill throughout our class". If that's true, which I do not doubt, that's borderline criminal to allow. Do I name that instructor publicly. Should I name the students, dive sites, and periods or their courses. Do I let the court of public opinion take its course. And finally, how long will it take the current board of directors to suspend or expell that person with 3 people voting?

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Originally Posted by scubainchicago

In light of the unfolding NACD fiasco I'll chime in on some personal opinion. I'll start by saying I've never taken a class with RN and outside of purchasing a CO analyzer I have no axe to grind either way. What I will say is the way the politics are being spun is shameful. The fact that the people who just resigned cannot freely speak because of a confidentiality agreement puts them at a gross disadvantage, especially in the court of public opinion which in some cases affect their livelihoods.

If this is the incident I've heard RUMORS of, the complaint was brought up by a competing instructor and their student. It was investigated by another agency who unfounded the complaint. It's also very convenient that the vote that brought this recent suspension would likely not have gone the way it did if the resigning BODs were still on the board.

To highlight the fairness of this, I would like to make mention of an incident I have direct knowledge of. I know that one of the sitting BODs taught a couple of my classmates two separate cave courses. After completion of those courses, they stated "we never once did a valve drill throughout our class". If that's true, which I do not doubt, that's borderline criminal to allow. Do I name that instructor publicly. Should I name the students, dive sites, and periods or their courses. Do I let the court of public opinion take its course. And finally, how long will it take the current board of directors to suspend or expell that person with 3 BODs voting?

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Daniel,

I don't believe that not completing a valve drill is a violation of NACD standards. I think what you're seeing is the agency just doesn't have standards which are clear and easily enforced. Even finding the line isn't a requirement in a lost line drill during a NACD intro course from my understanding.

That's pretty sad if the point of diving manifolded doubles is to save gas, and possibly your life. Wouldn't you wonder what those knobs did throughout a course?

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Originally Posted by scubainchicago

That's pretty sad if the point of diving manifolded doubles is to save gas, and possibly your life. Wouldn't you wonder what those knobs did throughout a course?

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Just get gas from your buddy, you dive thirds, right? :)

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Originally Posted by jj1987

Just get gas from your buddy, you dive thirds, right? :)

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Is a buddy a NACD gear requirement? :)

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Originally Posted by scubainchicago

Is a buddy a NACD gear requirement? :)

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Dude, their standards don't even define what "complete xxx skill satisfactory" means. Someone could crawl on all 4's across the cave and as long as the instructor is cool with it, it's within standards.

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Originally Posted by jj1987

Dude, their standards don't even define what "complete xxx skill satisfactory" means. Someone could crawl on all 4's across the cave and as long as the instructor is cool with it, it's within standards.

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Could you tell me what agency does spell out exactly what passes and what doesn't. I am not aware of any that don't leave it up to the instructor to some degree. From what I have read of the few I have seen they say stuff like the student must demonstrate proficiency but this is never defined. Just curious as to what I dont know.

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Originally Posted by bamafan

Could you tell me what agency does spell out exactly what passes and what doesn't. I am not aware of any that don't leave it up to the instructor to some degree. From what I have read of the few I have seen they say stuff like the student must demonstrate proficiency but this is never defined. Just curious as to what I dont know.

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http://www.globalunderwaterexplorers.org/standards

What I don't get is, that so many people are complaining and seem to have better solutions, but nobody seems to want to get involved. If you guys care for what happens with the NACD, why don't you try to contribute something? Run for BoB or support somebody that does. It would be more productive. Just sayin'
FYI: I don't know any BoB members or former members...