Lost from line together

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Originally Posted by caverkevin

Third day of my cave training back in 1997. Diving Devil's for a "fun" dive, no planned skills. I was leading in and had just got past the Lips. I had seen the area to the right of the Key Hole on a previous dive. I was so intrigued by the idea of what could be back there I swam the team right off the line. Rennaker swam right up and motioned for us to turn off our lights. In the jet black, I had just killed the team. He let me know that after we surfaced. The only compliment I received was for getting into touch contact with my buddy as the lights went out. This was a big kick in the gut for me.

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This excerpt from other thread made me remember a question I was going to pose to my instructor. Might as well play with it here too. We did not cover this on the (Intro) course but what is the best way to look for lost line when you are ‘lost together’? I realize it probably ‘depends’ (on situation, buddies, gas, how long one stays lost...) but considering how new I am on this, I would like to hear some of the pros and cons on searching for the lost line by different methods. What if you cannot see either?

This should of course never happen, and if it does happen the line should not be far - but let’s say something went horribly, stupidly wrong and there was a total siltout as a result. Now there are 3 divers who miraculously stayed together but have no clue where the line is (or worse yet, have different ideas which direction the line might be). What might be the best way to search (considering no one lost their head yet)? Pros and cons of doing it as a team vs individually? How to do it best as a team if that is recommended?

It almost sounds like you are calling for a "every Person for them selves" scenario. If I didn't trust my buddies judgment on which way to go, I think I would trust my own instincts. Bottom line is, I am the only one responsible for my own survival. I would run my real trying to find the lost line, mark the line with an arrow the way I went, and follow the line until I reached a line marker arrow letting me if I was right or wrong. If I'm right, now comes the decision to go back in and find the team, or save myself, and hope they found a line arrow going the wrong way, and came back the correct way. That would probably depend on how much gas I had, and also how panicked they was when the problem started. Chances are if they panicked, they are either gone already, or will take me with them if I went back. Thats a hard decision to make, and I pray I never have to make it, or anyone else.

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Originally Posted by deepdiverbob

It almost sounds like you are calling for a "every Person for them selves" scenario.

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No I am not. I just realize that this would be a terrifying situation to be in - more so if it happened close to a turn point in new place or if someone started freaking out.

I am klutz enough in dark on my own but how to organize a search in that situation effectively - and not entangle into your own line/s? What if time is of essence (isn't it always), and it would be better to use more than one reel to look for (but then lose time coming back for buddies)? And what if gas is low (especially if one of you already lost gas due to the mishap that lead to this horror), and you want to stay together to donate if needed? Would it be better for 1 to search and 2 to stay at anchor point? This way at least one could fin away/search faster (and one could stay around as a possible donor)? How would you effectively communicate this plan unless you had not set a procedure beforehand for everything

I really quite do not know how to approach this problem. I would be reluctant to separate but I realize it's one massive slow-mo machine to move together when you are blind.

Also, having several search-lines means you might 'find' your buddy's line instead of the line you are looking for... what a heart break...

My instructor covered this. I was told to tie off while in touch contact, then move my team mate's hand to the line or tie-off, then give a couple sqeezes to hold as you conduct the search. Once you find the line, go back for your buddy. I think multiple people executing a line search at the same time is a recipe for disaster (e.g. entanglement, etc.) Of course if you can't get into touch contact or you are in an OOA situation you have to make due with what you have to work with. Bottom line, don't put yourself in a position where a lost line search is needed :)

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Originally Posted by deepdiverbob

It almost sounds like you are calling for a "every Person for them selves" scenario. If I didn't trust my buddies judgment on which way to go, I think I would trust my own instincts. Bottom line is, I am the only one responsible for my own survival. I would run my real trying to find the lost line, mark the line with an arrow the way I went, and follow the line until I reached a line marker arrow letting me if I was right or wrong. If I'm right, now comes the decision to go back in and find the team, or save myself, and hope they found a line arrow going the wrong way, and came back the correct way. That would probably depend on how much gas I had, and also how panicked they was when the problem started. Chances are if they panicked, they are either gone already, or will take me with them if I went back. Thats a hard decision to make, and I pray I never have to make it, or anyone else.

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A cookie or other non-directional marker would be a better option here. Leave your reel in place, and place the marker on what you think is the exit side. If you're wrong, and used an arrow, you've left a potentially deadly pointer for someone who comes behind you.

Last time i need to comm with a buddy and didnt have a sign for it i busted out the wet notes and we had a quick discussion. Figured that why i carried them. I would agree on a search time, then one person look while the other hovers. after said time and no sight of buddy you have to go look as it's pointless to sit in one spot and die. just my 0.02

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Originally Posted by sskasser

A cookie or other non-directional marker would be a better option here. Leave your reel in place, and place the marker on what you think is the exit side. If you're wrong, and used an arrow, you've left a potentially deadly pointer for someone who comes behind you.

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Excellent catch. You are correct.

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Originally Posted by ggoodman

Last time i need to comm with a buddy and didnt have a sign for it i busted out the wet notes and we had a quick discussion. Figured that why i carried them. I would agree on a search time, then one person look while the other hovers. after said time and no sight of buddy you have to go look as it's pointless to sit in one spot and die. just my 0.02

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in a silt out or lights out, wet notes will be useless...:roll:

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Originally Posted by battles2a5

My instructor covered this. I was told to tie off while in touch contact, then move my team mate's hand to the line or tie-off, then give a couple sqeezes to hold as you conduct the search. Once you find the line, go back for your buddy. :)

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In the book, "the last dive", there is a situation where Chrissy Rouse is in a situation like this with his mom . Total silt out away from the line but still together. He basically did what was metioned above. tied off, left her at the tie off point, found the line, then went back to get her and they got out to clear water.

the only problem is, if both divers are equal in skills, deciding who finds the line and who waits. then it gets into "how long do I wait" and other "what if" scenarios.

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Originally Posted by battles2a5

My instructor covered this. I was told to tie off while in touch contact, then move my team mate's hand to the line or tie-off, then give a couple sqeezes to hold as you conduct the search. Once you find the line, go back for your buddy. I think multiple people executing a line search at the same time is a recipe for disaster (e.g. entanglement, etc.) Of course if you can't get into touch contact or you are in an OOA situation you have to make due with what you have to work with. Bottom line, don't put yourself in a position where a lost line search is needed :)

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+1
edit: and then tie into the line placing a marker on side of best guess out. cookie wouldn't not require you to fix if you in fact guessed the wrong direction. If Guessing wrong with an arrow, prudence requires you to fix it when you pass it on the way back.