to clip or not to clip?

just wanted to start a new thread. I always thought it was standard practice clip stage bottles,(not deco) to the main line during the dive. As long as the bottle was not placing stress on the line. I was recently talking to my friend who was taking an intro course, and mentioned this practice and he said his cave instructor vehemently opposes such a practice. stating that stage bottles are to be placed out of the way and not on the line. I feel in the event of a silt out or such, you may not be able locate the stage. any thoughts?

I wouldn't leave mine off the line. You are right about siltout, and light failure preventing you from finding them on the way out.

Maybe he misunderstood, and the instructor was talking about deco bottles?

I clip stage bottles to the line for same reasons mentioned (also mask failure). I also clip deco bottles to the line. If I'm running a primary reel, I clip my O2 to my line. If I'm dropping deeper deco gas (ie 50% or 32%) for trimix dives, that deco bottle gets attached to the line also.

Clipping bottles also reduces the chances of them being moved by divers or current. Also, communicates to other divers that "No, this bottle was not lost or misplaced." By clipping it to the line it says "THIS IS MINE. I KNOW WHERE I DROPPED IT. LEAVE IT ALONE!"

It's no different than utilizing line arrows or cookies on the line during your dive.

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Originally Posted by aw

I clip stage bottles to the line for same reasons mentioned (also mask failure). I also clip deco bottles to the line. If I'm running a primary reel, I clip my O2 to my line. If I'm dropping deeper deco gas (ie 50% or 32%) for trimix dives, that deco bottle gets attached to the line also.

Clipping bottles also reduces the chances of them being moved by divers or current. Also, communicates to other divers that "No, this bottle was not lost or misplaced." By clipping it to the line it says "THIS IS MINE. I KNOW WHERE I DROPPED IT. LEAVE IT ALONE!"

It's no different than utilizing line arrows or cookies on the line during your dive.

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Exactly!! I couldn't have said it any better.

We had drills that involved clipping bottles to the line & later locating our bottle(s) & being able to distinguish mine from yours (our instructor would mix them up on us when we were not looking) with mask off/eyes closed during several IANTD classes...Adv. Nitrox, Normoxic Trimix and Trimix all had us go through this drill multipule times.

That's an interesting idea...what did you use to distinguish your bottle from a friends? We all have the the exact same setups around here...same tanks, we put together our rigging together and have the same regs...so they are physically identical.

Duct tape a line arrow to your tank?

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Originally Posted by Omicron

That's an interesting idea...what did you use to distinguish your bottle from a friends? We all have the the exact same setups around here...same tanks, we put together our rigging together and have the same regs...so they are physically identical.

Duct tape a line arrow to your tank?

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One advantage to clipping to the line is that the tanks are "in line". So if you are diver #2 in the team . . on exit your bottle will be the second one in line directly behind (exit side) of the first one you hit. Of course, in the training scenario Mike mentions, if the instructor goes over and switches them around, then this won't work. But there's hardly a chance that will happen on an actual cave dive. If someone messes with your bottle, they probably took it rather than rearranged it for you.

Not always. There are two schools of thought: one says that everybody drops stages when one person hits a given pressure. The other says that each person drops his/her stage when he/she hits the number. Almost every team I dive with belongs in the second group.

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Not always. There are two schools of thought: one says that everybody drops stages when one person hits a given pressure. The other says that each person drops his/her stage when he/she hits the number. Almost every team I dive with belongs in the second group.

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The idea still works though. If you dropped your tank later, then yours is the first one you come to. Even if the stage tanks are 100 ft apart.

Personally, I belong to the first "school of thought". We both drop them when the first person drops them. It keeps the team from having to stop twice going in on a single stage dive.

The other problem I have with the second school of thought is gas management. Yes, I'm sure everyone gas matched before the dive and know your drop & turn pressures. But everyone dropping at the same time is the more conservative approach. Yes, it's penalizing the diver who has a better SAC. But the heavier breather is going to turn the dive before you do anyway. So all you accomplished was dragging that extra tank further into the cave.

Clipping deco bottle is nice in theory and is the logical safe choice but IMHO it might actually not be the better choice in certain cases.

At Peacock for example, it's easy to clip a bottle either to the main line or you primary line. Plenty of space for everyone.

Now I was at LR two weeks ago. Close to a dozen people in the system. Four primaries tying into the main line. Clipping a deco bottle to your own primary is asking for trouble with the flow and the traffic. Other choice is to clip to the main line but now you are deeper than your MOD (if O2) and 10 bottles there would be a mess. In a situation like this, I think it makes sense to stash the bottle in a pocket. There are pockets all over the place. Keeps your team's bottles together in one pocket. That's what everyone was doing.

I'm curious if someone has a better suggestion.

As for stage. I don't use stage yet. But clipping to the line seems to be mandatory in this case. Too risky that you will pass your bottle without taking it if it's not on the line.

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Originally Posted by chimie007

Now I was at LR two weeks ago. Close to a dozen people in the system. Four primaries tying into the main line. Clipping a deco bottle to your own primary is asking for trouble with the flow and the traffic. Other choice is to clip to the main line but now you are deeper than your MOD (if O2) and 10 bottles there would be a mess. In a situation like this, I think it makes sense to stash the bottle in a pocket. There are pockets all over the place. Keeps your team's bottles together in one pocket. That's what everyone was doing.

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IN THEORY . . . (keep in mind this is a public forum) when there are that many lines in the cavern, I have heard of some teams not running a primary for some sites (i.e. LR, JB). I can't imagine who these crazy people are (complacency kills) . . . but some don't, esp if there's a high likelihood that reels will still be in place when they return and the team is very familiar with the site. So stashing them is the best choice in that scenario.

Alternatively, if you do run a reel in a place like LR, you will notice that if you tie off to the stake and clip your deco bottle to your primary reel's line, you can use the tank as a weight on the line to hug it to the floor just past the tieoff where the floor drops past that big rock. So you can actually use it to your advantage to keep the line out of other divers' way.

Personally, I like dropping my O2 10 ft deeper when practical than when I'm going to switch. It gives me a minute to hook everything up on my slow ascent so that when I hit 20 ft, I'm ready for the switch.