To wannabe and new cave divers

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it occurs to me that most of those who die in caves,(not all) are the ones who dont possess the same attitude displayed here in the forum. they dont post, dont seek more education, dont maintain gear, dont learn from others by being social and seeking advice, dont display respect for others or the cave envirorment, cut corners by getting cheap gear or dont maintain what they have. this is just a theory......any comments?.......

I disagree. And I disagree about the personal responsibility thing too.

First off, posting is not relevant to much of anything. many good divers never post or even lurk. seeking more education? I suspect every diver, cave or otherwise, continues reading articles, books, talking with buddies, etc. And lack of respect? Gear?

Thinking over the past few years of cave divers deaths, I don't think I see any of those things going on. Cave diving is risky, no doubt about it. The "rules" gleaned from accident analysis provide guidelines to promote survival, and we've seen that nearly all accidents involve a violation of at least one of the rules (whether or not the violation was the cause can't be known). And most of the dead cave divers in the past five years have been trained, thoughtful, highly educated, with great gear in working order. I may be wrong, I haven't reviewed a list of their names, training, etc., so correct me if I have it wrong.

As for personal responsibility...well, that's a slippery concept with a different meaning for each of us. The very fact you die means in some sense a failure of personal responsibility...or does it? I am personally responsible. And if I die in a cave it will be my personal responsibility. I go in the cave fully prepared to come out again, but at the same time am concious of the alternate possibility...that something may occur that will be beyond my ability to resolve it.

What I do see that concerns me are divers moving quickly through training levels - new divers with fewer than 100 total lifetime dives in cave class, divers with lots of dives as divemaster, even instructor, but who's 1,000 dives were all with students at devil's den, people getting involved in diving strictly to dive caves, with no interest and no experience with diving in various environments, and so on. I've seen divers with major back surgery, pins in place, deciding that sidemount has opened up cave diving to them. I've seen divers with pacemakers, recent open heart surgery, asthma, diabetes, etc., taking up cave and deep tech diving. These are the things that really concern me. Get a doctor to sign off and you must be good to go, right? personal responsibility lacking here?

With the apparent increase in the number of agencies offering cave training, with the change in Florida from "cave country," when it was a battle to keep caves open to divers, to the emphasis on cave diving as "economic tourism," when it's becoming a marketable commodity, I am afraid for the changes we can expect in terms of future deaths.

Just as in the Exley Days we discovered the need for guidelines, training, lights, etc., as the caves claimed the untrained and newly trained and the trust me divers, then in the New Millennium we see the addition of complacency, solo, new gear, etc., as the "rules violations" that are killing the educated experienced diver, I see the next wave being the ones with the rushed training and restricted experience.

And perhaps here is where personal responsibility comes in. Those who go slow, get training spread out over time, with plenty of diving experiences in a variety of locations, are probably taking responsibility, while those who push too far too fast are not.

This may be a sign of the times. I think I see something similar in college students these days. The goal of getting the degree, of getting the grade in a class, seems to far outweigh the goal of learning. Instead of trying to understand, too many want to know only what they need to do to pass the test. In a similar vein, the diver who took three years of extensive back surgery, or had a pacemaker installed, gets a doctors note saying it's ok to dive as if the doctor's note is the magic wand opening the caves. That stamp of approval, the paper that says you are good to go, seems to have replaced taking stock of yourself, being honest with yourself. With this attitude carrying over to cave diver training, we may be on the cusp of training divers who have developed a life-long attitude that passing a test is equivalent to knowing how.

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[JahJahwarrior]

What I do see that concerns me are divers moving quickly through training levels - new divers with fewer than 100 total lifetime dives in cave class, divers with lots of dives as divemaster, even instructor, but who's 1,000 dives were all with students at devil's den, people getting involved in diving strictly to dive caves, with no interest and no experience with diving in various environments, and so on.


And perhaps here is where personal responsibility comes in. Those who go slow, get training spread out over time, with plenty of diving experiences in a variety of locations, are probably taking responsibility, while those who push too far too fast are not.

This may be a sign of the times. I think I see something similar in college students these days. The goal of getting the degree, of getting the grade in a class, seems to far outweigh the goal of learning. Instead of trying to understand, too many want to know only what they need to do to pass the test.

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I think it is tough to say that any one thing makes a diver likely to die in a cave. Every death has been unique in some way, where the only thing we can really say at the end of the day is "running out of air is what kills you." Of course, people run out of air for a million different reasons.

I know I've caught flack for being a young cave diver. I also know I don't have tons of lifetime dives, and over half of my dives have been in caves. I know I did my training in under a year.

But, I also know that my open water training was done by a cave diving instructor in the Florida springs, and the first forum I used for information was CDF and then, TDS. This exposed me to cave diving even before I had my OW certification. I also know that I spent hours upon hours talking about cave diving with Rich and his customers at CEE for a year, before deciding it was something I could do safely. I also know I was diving in a technical/cave/hogarthian configuration halfway through that year. I also know I was pushed hard in my classes, and when my butt was handed to me on a silver platter, I went home and figured out what I was doing wrong, and improved. I know I didn't pay for a card, but that I earned the right to be called a cave diver.

I also know that since then, I have pushed myself to learn as much as possible, taking courses to learn about water quality sampling, critter counting, and survey. I know that I am a safe diver, and that I understand the risks involved with overhead diving, and am prepared to suffer the consequences.

Sadly, I also know that two friends of mine, including my nitrox instructor and the previous owner of some of my regs and other equipment, died in a cave.