To wannabe and new cave divers

[ltb7733]

in light of the recent tragedy, i offer what i hope will be some help in forming the mindset of those who would like to pursue this sport and those who are in training or recently completed thier training. I have been an active diver since 1975, a commerical diver with 5 years of hardhat shallow water salvage(with a two year degree which included diving at least 10 different helmets, mixed gas operations, hyperbaric operations and i am currently in the field of hyperbaric medicine for the last 12 years, and have been teaching scuba since 2001) with that said, i approached my cave training as if i knew ABOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT DIVING.
Cave diving is a aspect of diving completely different to what we think diving is or could be.
i can recall my heartbeat being in the redzone on more than one occaision during my cave class and this is from someone who has been in a few close calls over a 34 year love affair with blowing bubbles and who has 6 thick dive log books sitting a shelf at home.

my dive buddy john and i took time to dive several dives after each stage of classes. so our traing spanned two years or more. we went slow, were not distance orientated or on any quest to log conquests too soon. whats too soon? thats up to you. i suggest covering the same distance many time before going farther, reguardless of having too much air left to turn the dive.

Since being full cave certified 3yrs ago, we color in the parts of cave systems we have seen with majic markers on the related maps, we plan where we want to go, calculated times of estimated travel and air consumption. We dont push limits and have called dives early JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE FELT LIKE IT.

if you get grief from your dive buddys because you have too much air left or any other type of grief, drop that person from your buddy list pronto.

Realize now that cave diving will require a sizable amount of time and money to be comitted to this endevour. Understand what this means: thousands of dollars in gear,( i personally dive with TWO COMPUTORS, 5 lights: one HID, 2 SL6s, and 2 mini Q40s. On one dive not so long ago i had my HID FAIL, MY BACK UP SL6 FAIL, AND FINISHED THE DIVE WITH THE 3RD PRIMARY) and alot of time, hotel and food and gas bills.

We have been planing to do dark water tunnel in the peacock system for quite some time now. Our typical approach to this dive consists of: buying the dvd to familarize ourselves with section of cave, and discussing plans after multiple viewings. Checking out the entrance and exits at both ends, talking to other cave divers who have done this. We talked to MANY DIVERS and got lots of information, some left out by other divers. Not all divers will remember important points.

i offer this post in hopes that some may find this informative on the journey they are about to make, and we all hope all of our journeys will be long and filled with fond memories. This does not happen by accident. It takes good friends with similar desires, money and time to have this kind of fun. And fun it is, as well as rewarding.

In closing, i will share a motto i tell all my students:

MOTHER OCEAN WILL FIND OUT WHAT YOU DONT KNOW.

This applies to caves or any other underwater activity.

safe diving to all lance

[Gary]

Thanks Lance. Great post and good advice.

I get the impression that cave diving certifications have become part of a standard series of diver conquests these days. A lot of people these days seem to think if they've been diving more then a year or two they are coming into cave diving with a wealth of background experience and after a year or two of cave diving they have cleared the danger peroid.

We did a survey (maybe 7 years ago? can't find it in the archives) on this list that showed the average cave diver in our survey had 7 years of open water experience before getting cavern certified. I think the danger peroid they used to propose for new cave divers was about the first 100 dives a couple years ago it was the first 300 dives.

People are getting into cave diving with ever less experience and ever greater expectations of their capabilities. More and cheaper (and better quality) gear and more impressive dives earlier.


[And not exactly related but anyone who hasn't seen the background on the recent deaths at Waynes World should probably read Mike's post over on The Deco Stop: http://www.thedecostop.com/forums/sh...&postcount=165 ]

[DogDiver]

Great post Lance. It took me two years to get my Full Cave card. And that with 36 years of wreck diving in the Great Lakes and being a NAUI Instructor. Man....I just can't stress going slow....those "zero to hero" classes are not for me....Ken

There are Bold Divers and Old Divers, but there are No Old/Bold Divers.....

Condolances to all friends and of course family, we all share thier grief.....

[bob1577]

Great post lance, I hope your information is taken on board by budding cave divers. I have been cave diving now for some years in all different systems different parts of the world. Here in Ireland vis is about 5 feet at best. Not like that 100 feet plus in some florida caves. But If everyone took on board that each cave can be totally different from each other even the same cave on different days and the challenges are never the same. If a respect for what you doing and that a cave is only a place for the well trained then maybe we could save a few more lifes.

Safe diving to all.

[Fox_Cousteau]

in light of the recent tragedy, i offer what i hope will be some help in forming the mindset of those who would like to pursue this sport and those who are in training or recently completed thier training. I have been an active diver since 1975, a commerical diver with 5 years of hardhat shallow water salvage(with a two year degree which included diving at least 10 different helmets, mixed gas operations, hyperbaric operations and i am currently in the field of hyperbaric medicine for the last 12 years, and have been teaching scuba since 2001) with that said, i approached my cave training as if i knew ABOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT DIVING.
Cave diving is a aspect of diving completely different to what we think diving is or could be.
i can recall my heartbeat being in the redzone on more than one occaision during my cave class and this is from someone who has been in a few close calls over a 34 year love affair with blowing bubbles and who has 6 thick dive log books sitting a shelf at home.

my dive buddy john and i took time to dive several dives after each stage of classes. so our traing spanned two years or more. we went slow, were not distance orientated or on any quest to log conquests too soon. whats too soon? thats up to you. i suggest covering the same distance many time before going farther, reguardless of having too much air left to turn the dive.

Since being full cave certified 3yrs ago, we color in the parts of cave systems we have seen with majic markers on the related maps, we plan where we want to go, calculated times of estimated travel and air consumption. We dont push limits and have called dives early JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE FELT LIKE IT.

if you get grief from your dive buddys because you have too much air left or any other type of grief, drop that person from your buddy list pronto.

Realize now that cave diving will require a sizable amount of time and money to be comitted to this endevour. Understand what this means: thousands of dollars in gear,( i personally dive with TWO COMPUTORS, 5 lights: one HID, 2 SL6s, and 2 mini Q40s. On one dive not so long ago i had my HID FAIL, MY BACK UP SL6 FAIL, AND FINISHED THE DIVE WITH THE 3RD PRIMARY) and alot of time, hotel and food and gas bills.

We have been planing to do dark water tunnel in the peacock system for quite some time now. Our typical approach to this dive consists of: buying the dvd to familarize ourselves with section of cave, and discussing plans after multiple viewings. Checking out the entrance and exits at both ends, talking to other cave divers who have done this. We talked to MANY DIVERS and got lots of information, some left out by other divers. Not all divers will remember important points.

i offer this post in hopes that some may find this informative on the journey they are about to make, and we all hope all of our journeys will be long and filled with fond memories. This does not happen by accident. It takes good friends with similar desires, money and time to have this kind of fun. And fun it is, as well as rewarding.

In closing, i will share a motto i tell all my students:

MOTHER OCEAN WILL FIND OUT WHAT YOU DONT KNOW.

This applies to caves or any other underwater activity.

safe diving to all lance

thanks for a well worded and great perspective on dive training.

[Serota]

Perhaps the Apprentice level of cave training should become mandatory, something like the student must complete X number of dives with an experienced, full cave certified diver before progressing to full cave training. These dives would, of course, be within the limitations of the Apprentice level and would tend to assure that the Apprentice diver completes several less complex dives, while practicing skills before attempting more complex dives and would have the oversight and assistance of the more experienced diver.

Comments?

[MengTze]

I think we should accept that there will always be people who dive beyond their means, do things that are not smart in light of their experience, training and equipment usage.

There are many divers who through the training programs on offer fare well and excel by experience built as a result.

We should shield ourselves to try to change working practices by means of managing for the exceptions. These exceptions are just that, exceptions and will crop up regardless of how the training programs change..........

[OFG-1]

To wannabe and New cave divers..............

DONT DO IT...... You will spend a ton of money, a lot of time, get bit by all sorts of flying and crawling insects, develop a close relationship with snakes and alligators, sink up to your glottis in swamp mud, pee on yourself, have to dig your friends car out of a rutted sandy road, and hang around with some unsavory people, some old with long beards and some that share a drysuit (and cooties) with Sarah Palin.

Find another hobby. Try gardening, bicyling, cat shaving, bathe the homeless, chase younger women, buy a old wooden boat, or worse, a fabric covered airplane. Try motorcycling, visit all 50 states, take pictures of bears, become a nudist, put fig leaves on all the naked paintings in your state, open a topless bar, run for political oiffice.......

Remember, there is only wet rocks and mud in those caves, spooky looking white crawfish, and a few slimey eels. The rumors about the hidden pots of gold are not true I tell you, there is none, and you cant find it........

[Gary]

I think we should accept that there will always be people who dive beyond their means, do things that are not smart in light of their experience, training and equipment usage.

Yes. I agree completely.

[guru caver]

Perhaps the Apprentice level of cave training should become mandatory, something like the student must complete X number of dives with an experienced, full cave certified diver before progressing to full cave training. These dives would, of course, be within the limitations of the Apprentice level and would tend to assure that the Apprentice diver completes several less complex dives, while practicing skills before attempting more complex dives and would have the oversight and assistance of the more experienced diver.

Comments?

The more rules you make....the more rules they break!