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  1. #11
    Member
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    Jun 2005
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    Chelsea, VT
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    60
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    I have not had a scooter failure, but I have only about 50 DPV cave dives. In the same number of dives, my wife has had two, both with rented scooters. Once the handle came off in her hand, and another time the prop fell off. Both times we had plenty of gas to swim out and didn't come close to our bottom third. Now we make sure all the bolts and screws are tight.


  2. #12
    Member
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    Oct 2005
    Location
    St Pete, Fl
    Age
    32
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    Failure's I've seen or been involved with:

    Partial Flood
    Total flood
    Scooter stuck on
    Prop came off (a few times)
    Broken blade (s)
    Cave line in prop
    Fishing line in prop
    Broken adjustment yoke
    Broken clutch
    Broken trigger cable
    Broken speed adjust or power on/off knob
    Snapped off trigger
    Sheared off latched
    Fastening Device broken during shipment
    Water and corrosion on battery LCD (this kills the battery)

    I'm sure there are others I'm missing.

    I find Suex scooters leaps and bounds more reliable than scooters based on mako/gavin style back ends. None of them are good enough to not carry either a) enough gas to swim out or b) a tow scooter.


  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdobbertien View Post
    I always plan for it, just doesn?t seem terribly frequent


    Well I sure hope that the question would not aim at taking short cuts due to unlikeliness of failure..


    Unfortunately I do hear this more and more in discussions on failure scenarios and mitigation methods..
    The most common is diving DIR style manifolded doubles solo and not taking a buddy bottle..
    The only constellation this could become "somewhat" acceptable is if then the twin set is not dove DIR style but with the manifold closed from the getgo and only for "unchallenging" shallow OW dives, in no way in artificial or real overhead..


    Folks doing that always argue with the extremely low likelihood of a complete gas loss with a manifolded twin set.
    For me: I do not care how low the probability for a single failure event is. Already risk analysis is quite clear on that.. Risk equals probability times consequence..
    If the consequence is certain death, the math gets quite easy..
    Probailities really only come into play for multiple critical failure scenarios..


    It is to be noted that almost any of the basic cave diving rules are manifested on extremely rare events actually happening and mitigating for those..


    As to the original question:
    I had a runaway scooter during a cave dive with a Gavin. Cause was moisture creepingly building up inside motor compartment. When temporarily storing the scooter on the nose the moisture built up behind the relay board and only decided to short circuit on a live cave dive..
    We had enough reserve to swim out from max penetration of course, but it would have sucked as hell, so luckily it happened at less than 1000' into the cave..
    Training paid off then to quickly hit the back of the scooter to adjust the tilt of the blades to almost zero..
    As we still were close to the entrance we decided to still swim out the crazy turning scooter..


    Quote Originally Posted by CHartmann View Post
    I know of someone that thought the scooter was charged but it wasn't (no battery indicator on it) and took it in about 1000' before it died.


    A lot more than an insufficient charge must have gone wrong at that dive if someone died only 1000' into a cave on a scooter or was it crazy deep?
    Even then gas planning was for sure insufficient..


  4. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogenius View Post
    Well I sure hope that the question would not aim at taking short cuts due to unlikeliness of failure..


    Unfortunately I do hear this more and more in discussions on failure scenarios and mitigation methods..
    The most common is diving DIR style manifolded doubles solo and not taking a buddy bottle..
    The only constellation this could become "somewhat" acceptable is if then the twin set is not dove DIR style but with the manifold closed from the getgo and only for "unchallenging" shallow OW dives, in no way in artificial or real overhead..


    Folks doing that always argue with the extremely low likelihood of a complete gas loss with a manifolded twin set.
    For me: I do not care how low the probability for a single failure event is. Already risk analysis is quite clear on that.. Risk equals probability times consequence..
    If the consequence is certain death, the math gets quite easy..
    Probailities really only come into play for multiple critical failure scenarios..


    It is to be noted that almost any of the basic cave diving rules are manifested on extremely rare events actually happening and mitigating for those..


    As to the original question:
    I had a runaway scooter during a cave dive with a Gavin. Cause was moisture creepingly building up inside motor compartment. When temporarily storing the scooter on the nose the moisture built up behind the relay board and only decided to short circuit on a live cave dive..
    We had enough reserve to swim out from max penetration of course, but it would have sucked as hell, so luckily it happened at less than 1000' into the cave..
    Training paid off then to quickly hit the back of the scooter to adjust the tilt of the blades to almost zero..
    As we still were close to the entrance we decided to still swim out the crazy turning scooter..






    A lot more than an insufficient charge must have gone wrong at that dive if someone died only 1000' into a cave on a scooter or was it crazy deep?
    Even then gas planning was for sure insufficient..
    I think he meant the scooter died!


  5. #15

    Default

    How about Li-Ion batteries causing violent chemical fire inextinguishable by water? Diving starts at the moment you load your vehicle...


  6. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    St Pete, Fl
    Age
    32
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    1,428

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARY View Post
    How about Li-Ion batteries causing violent chemical fire inextinguishable by water? Diving starts at the moment you load your vehicle...
    Causing one to run out of the cadillac motel nekkid?

    Classic.


  7. #17

    Default

    Note to self: Do not lend scooter to AJ!
    Quote Originally Posted by PfcAJ View Post
    Failure's I've seen or been involved with:

    Partial Flood
    Total flood
    Scooter stuck on
    Prop came off (a few times)
    Broken blade (s)
    Cave line in prop
    Fishing line in prop
    Broken adjustment yoke
    Broken clutch
    Broken trigger cable
    Broken speed adjust or power on/off knob
    Snapped off trigger
    Sheared off latched
    Fastening Device broken during shipment
    Water and corrosion on battery LCD (this kills the battery)

    I'm sure there are others I'm missing.

    I find Suex scooters leaps and bounds more reliable than scooters based on mako/gavin style back ends. None of them are good enough to not carry either a) enough gas to swim out or b) a tow scooter.


  8. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    St Pete, Fl
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pavão View Post
    Note to self: Do not lend scooter to AJ!
    Only a few of those were personal goofs!

    Better policy is "dont be in the vicinity of AJ with a scooter"!


  9. #19

    Default

    Unlike AJ I have not been involved in any floods since I gave away my old mako…

    I have been around:
    Cave line in the prop x3
    Burned up fuse (corrosion on the terminals caused the housing to get so hot it melted)
    Stuck trigger
    Broken gavin trigger wire (still ridable)
    Premature dead battery due to a failed cell inside
    Broken prop hub
    Broken prop blade

    I don't know exactly how many fault free scooter dives I have vs problem dives. But I would guess the problem rate is in the 1 in 150 or 200 dive range.


  10. #20

    Default

    Well I’m getting close to a failure dive



 

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