Welcome to the Cave Diver's Forum.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 88
  1. #61
    Administrator Forum Admin
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    23,212

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent View Post
    OK, you and Moses are the exceptions!
    Tom Mount too. There are others, but most have passed away.

    Also Moses cheated, he parted the Red Sea, but didn't actually dive

    Forrest Wilson (with 2 Rs)
    Any opinions are personal.
    Sump Divers

  2. #62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent View Post
    OK, you and Moses are the exceptions!
    I think some people on this forum couldn't have gotten their Abe Davis, because he wasn't born yet.

    "Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick

  3. #63
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Right on the Ragged Edge
    Posts
    3,238

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FW View Post
    Well maybe not ALL
    I spoke with your younger brother, Methuselah, and he said that you did take some classes at one time.

    "Those who the gods seek to destroy, first learn how to play golf."
    "Doing nothing is very hard to do.... you never know when you're finished."
    "Yes, golf can be taught ... it's just that it can't be learned."
    " I am serious.... and don't all me Shirley."

    Leslie Nielsen 11-28-2010

    "Into the blue again; in the silent water
    Under the rocks, and stones; there is water underground" Talking Heads

  4. #64

    Default




    Dominick Gheesling

    Hike your own hike.

  5. #65
    Administrator Forum Admin
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    23,212

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OFG-1 View Post
    I spoke with your younger brother, Methuselah, and he said that you did take some classes at one time.
    He must be getting senile

    Forrest Wilson (with 2 Rs)
    Any opinions are personal.
    Sump Divers

  6. #66

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FW View Post
    Tom Mount too. There are others, but most have passed away.

    Also Moses cheated, he parted the Red Sea, but didn't actually dive
    Eyewitness account? ��

    Mark Schroder

    The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice. (PV12:15)

  7. #67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop View Post
    I wonder.
    There are some weird things that are taught and the former students will argue that is the gospel. For example, someone is teaching students that having line arrows facing the direction of travel is okay even if it contradicts the line arrows that are there, because there is a difference between permanent and temporary line arrows. This comes up on SB frequently , and you explain why this is wrong, but they will defend that to their dying breath ( unfortunately literally). You have to question if your cave training taught you things that counter-intuitive, then you need to question all facets of your training, and mentorship becomes critical.

    its is not "someone" that is teaching that way.. To my own studies of this very specific topic that is how it is taught EVERYWHEREELSE outside the US.
    As I use my own form of REMs this is a lesser topic for me personally, but that falls under area specific topics rather than weird things of individuals and I would also argue that it would be counter-intuitive to do it the US way. I get the arguments both ways, but surely there is no black/white right wrong.
    Placing an arrow against the direction topwards your own verified exit just because the main arrows show differently (to a nonverified exit that might be potentially closer, but might also have restrictions etc. etc you have no idea how close etc etc. is surely problematic as well and not really intuitive.


  8. #68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop View Post
    This would be a sad dumbing down of basic training and the learning of a key skill. Any student having received this training has to question the quality of their over all training, and if the quality of their class has really prepared them to handle an emergency and survive.
    well I had come across this already 6 or 7 years ago in a web report some German guy had posted in a german forum about his cave training in Florida.
    I could not quite believe what I had read so I contacted the guy and he confirmed. Also in training they did not run a line to OW at the ear in Ginnie.
    "Because the flow would spit you out anyways and laying a line there is messy" was apparently the reason the instructor was passing on to their students..


  9. #69

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogenius View Post

    I get the arguments both ways, but surely there is no black/white right wrong.
    Placing an arrow against the direction topwards your own verified exit just because the main arrows show differently (to a nonverified exit that might be potentially closer, but might also have restrictions etc. etc you have no idea how close etc etc. is surely problematic as well and not really intuitive.
    We can agree to disagree, but this is wrong on so many levels, and has shown to be a factor in one fatality and some near incidents. There is no such thing as a permanent or temporary line arrow, no matter what personalization you do to it-ever. If you are in a silt out/lights out, or air share, and stressed, then are you going to feel the arrow for specific details, or touch it and say that is the correct way out. Nonverified exit is not valid, you verify that exit, or use the current line arrows. Ask the team in Madison that died when there was a silt out close to the time the half hitch shifted. There was a huge silt out, and the downloaded dive computer showed they traversed back and forth to determine their exit, and the turn point was a line arrow facing the wrong direction due to a hasty line repair. There have been many incidents where a team almost perished due to line arrows contradicting each other. I agree REMs ,cookies, etc are acceptable,but placing a line arrow on the line that contradicts the current line arrows, may make your culpable for an incident.

    "Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick

  10. #70
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    St Petersburg, FL
    Posts
    2,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop View Post
    We can agree to disagree, but this is wrong on so many levels, and has shown to be a factor in one fatality and some near incidents. There is no such thing as a permanent or temporary line arrow, no matter what personalization you do to it-ever. If you are in a silt out/lights out, or air share, and stressed, then are you going to feel the arrow for specific details, or touch it and say that is the correct way out. Nonverified exit is not valid, you verify that exit, or use the current line arrows. Ask the team in Madison that died when there was a silt out close to the time the half hitch shifted. There was a huge silt out, and the downloaded dive computer showed they traversed back and forth to determine their exit, and the turn point was a line arrow facing the wrong direction due to a hasty line repair. There have been many incidents where a team almost perished due to line arrows contradicting each other. I agree REMs ,cookies, etc are acceptable,but placing a line arrow on the line that contradicts the current line arrows, may make your culpable for an incident.


    I completely agree an arrow is a bad choice and that's why I only use REMS. Unfortunately, it means nothing unless you can tell the rest of the world. I've seen a ton of people saying that an arrow is perfectly fine in classes in Mexico and France. I've also seen it in Fl.

    It's an uphill battle



 

Similar Threads

  1. Stage Class / How many dives/how long before taking class?
    By v101 in forum Cavern & Cave Diving Education & Training
    Replies: 136
    Last Post: 02-24-2015, 11:07 AM
  2. Cave Stage Class and Cave related Specialties
    By dabigcattt in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: 11-06-2014, 08:53 AM
  3. Cave 2 Class Report
    By scubainchicago in forum Cavern & Cave Diving Education & Training
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-23-2014, 10:03 PM
  4. My full cave class
    By stairman in forum Dive Reports
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-20-2006, 10:50 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts