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  1. #11

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    also add that to my cave ccr class, and my DPV class where we ran lines on every dive


  2. #12
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    During classes, I always ran a reel. I may have left it in place for a second dive later in the day though.
    Running lines at places like Ginnie and Peacock, particularly when they are busy forced me to look very carefully at line placement. I did not want my strand in the spider web to be the one that caught the fly. Nor did I want it to be dislodged by someone else pulling theirs out.
    I suppose there are probably reel running savants out there. I was not one of them though.



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  3. #13
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    I was taught by Sheck Exley to always run a reel. He even insisted on running it from the surface. I do agree with current thinking about running line from a safe exit. Students need reel practice, even if the permanent line runs to the entrance.

    It was great "fun" running a line from the surface into the spring entrance of Manatee

    Forrest Wilson (with 2 Rs)
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    Sump Divers

  4. #14
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    That's got to be pretty unusual for a cave class, is it one specific instructor?


  5. #15
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    I've seen several classes over the past few years not run line into peacock. I would think the lines being closer to OW are a factor in it happening.


  6. #16

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    After running many, many lines during cave training we popped up on one dive to hear an instructor talking to someone on the steps at peacock about how stupid it is and how angry it makes him that people run lines into peacock. His statement was that they spent all that time and energy bringing the main lines closer into the cavern zone that only a dummy couldn't find their way out. I thought it was the most stupid thing I had heard even as a new student. I've seen the cavern zone when the entrance is choked by algae and is getting finned up by a lot of divers entering and exiting. The cavern visibility can drop dramatically. But that is the first time I became aware of an instructor with the mentality like that. I don't know who he was, just that he was an older white-haired gentleman I haven't encountered again but who seems very up in arms about the current state of lines in peacock.


  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richied View Post
    After running many, many lines during cave training we popped up on one dive to hear an instructor talking to someone on the steps at peacock about how stupid it is and how angry it makes him that people run lines into peacock. His statement was that they spent all that time and energy bringing the main lines closer into the cavern zone that only a dummy couldn't find their way out. I thought it was the most stupid thing I had heard even as a new student. I've seen the cavern zone when the entrance is choked by algae and is getting finned up by a lot of divers entering and exiting. The cavern visibility can drop dramatically...
    Several years ago, my buddy and I were the last team out of P1 on the Olsen line before the park was closed to diving for flooding and viz. It was our second dive of the day, and conditions had deteriorated since the first dive. After we turned, we continued to see the conditions worsen. At around the 200 foot mark, I stopped to look at something while my buddy continued. He was about 10-15 feet in front and when I looked up I could see his outline but not his light - really weird. After surfacing I asked if he had turned it off but he had not. Reaching our primary reel, we could still see daylight but it was considerably dimmer that on dive 1. There was another team on the Peanut side who exited after us but I never got a chance to ask them what conditions were on their side. While we were never worried, it was a good reminder of the need to run a line to openwater.

    Jeff Bauer taught us and we ran a primary on every cavern, intro, apprentice, and cave dive at Ginnie, the Millpond and WSPSSP.

    Safe diving,

    Sandy Robinson

  8. #18

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    Why wouldn't you run a reel? Practice makes perfect and at least in my case I have to be able to do it at demonstration level. That's why I always use the Ear in training! Plus doing it with a scooter or two between your legs is always fun and exciting with students... I mean how are you going to do a lost line drill, if you can't run a reel or a spool?

    Safe diving,

    Rich

    Last edited by Rich; 09-17-2018 at 01:10 PM.
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  9. #19

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    My Intro instructor had some faults but failing to require students to run lines was not one of them. He had me running lines around the eye spiraling all the way to the surface after exiting the eye.

    Since then, Marci and I have had several different instructors over the years - AN/DP, Full Cave, Trimix, Cave DPV, Cave CCR, all of the instructors involved had us run lines from open water.

    ----

    In terms of the mainlines in Peacock, I've been advised by a couple of instructors that the reasoning was that there were few really good rocks there to tie off on, and rather than have everyone run lines, the lines were brought out to almost open water to enable the few really good rocks that are there to be used by students in training to run lines well into the cavern to or even slightly beyond the sign.

    Now... I can argue the "few really good rocks" statement as the more I run lines the better I am at being able to tie off on almost anything - but I think the general intent is probably correct. Twelve teams running lines in P1 on a busy day would get messy in a hurry. Unfortunately, I think some drift has occurred to the point that some instructors now seem to believe that students should not run lines in P1.

    At Ginnie, with the current main line placement on the Eye side and running up past what Marci likes to call the "hill of skulls" to the first sharp bend in the passage out to the Eye, I'm ok not running a line there if there are already a few lines in place, as more than that starts to create the potential for entanglement, especially when they are student lines that are not run all that well. With the mainline going out that far, there isn't the risk there used to be of a less experienced diver ending up in the Catacombs by mistake.

    Otherwise, we always run lines because it's one of the primary safety rules, it's a solid habit to have when cave diving, and it's good practice. I suspect some divers stop running lines in familiar caves because it takes time. The irony is that the more you run lines the more efficient you get with the result that it really doesn't take any significant time at all, and the minute or so it does take is a minute or so the rest of the team can use to double check that they have everything squared away.

    NACD Cave DPV Cert # 666: Cave DPV Anti-christ

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Why wouldn't you run a reel? Practice makes perfect and at least in my case I have to be able to do it at demonstration level for students. That's why I always use the Ear in training! Plus doing it with a scooter or two between your legs is always fun and exciting with students... I mean how are you going to do a lost line drill, if you can't run a reel or a spool?

    Safe diving,

    Rich
    Absolutely. When I am diving with newish cave divers, if they have not done it before, I'll suggest they watch, and then run a reel into the ear. Then I'll pull it on the way out and have them run the reel on dive number 2. It teaches them to not only manage in high flow, but also to look well ahead, plan ahead, and visualize the flow - all important skills once you get in to Ginnie.

    I'm also in full agreement that doing it with a DPV between your knees or clipped off should be part of can N FL Cave DPV class - as should be placing jumps, and learning how to properly tie a scooter on the line, when you get off to swim some sections.

    NACD Cave DPV Cert # 666: Cave DPV Anti-christ


 

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