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  1. #21

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    @rddvet:

    The standing things wasn't exactly a trained, agency approved technique for managing this situation. It was just one of those things that I found myself in. When the hyperventilation started the first thing that came over me was shock and disbelief that can be best described by the phrase "oh $#!*." What happened next was basically me grabbing onto the closest thing I could get ahold of and somehow within a few seconds I found myself basically standing on the cave floor pushing myself down with my hands and up with my feet so that I was stabilized. I couldn't tell you why I did this, just that I did.

    In retrospect there are a few things I gleaned from this experience but ultimately I'm still not sure what exactly happened. And given that, I can't say with any certainty that this wouldn't have happened if I did anything different. At this point I'm still curious as to what exactly happened to cause this.

    @ KenSUF: I don't think it was that. I could be wrong, but it defiantly didn't feel like it.


  2. #22

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    My biggest understandings, lessons from this experience with a little reflection:

    1. For myself, I really want to slow the pace down. This covers so much including the CO2 buildup that likely led to the breathing difficulty. It also really addresses that idea to progress slowly into the system. I know I've read that in multiple places but more often than not I feel like I am covering a great deal more ground than I need to in lots of dives I have been on with several different partners. I want to see the cave and I want to see the cave in a manner where I begin to learn the personality of the system and the visual way-points of the systems landscape. I love the mentioned idea of just taking a break to look around every so often during a dive.

    2. I absolutely agree with the statement regarding gear changes, even what I would have previously considered minute changes. For some reason (probably age related) any change to my rig takes multiple dives for me to adapt to. I also think that the overhead environment amplifies the situation; In open water it was not that big a deal but in the overhead scenario everything has to work, has to work the way I expect it to work, has to be located pretty much exactly where I think it should be and I probably don't take this as seriously as need be considering the ramifications when the gear doesn't work. I need to be more amenable to the idea of scheduling a gear shakedown dive with a buddy of lesser scope/penetration than normal (which is time well spent not a waste of time) and if that goes well then yes lets dive again.

    3. Really glad that you shared this experience Jerry. By the way, yes it was frightening seeing Jerry immobile 2000' from the surface. He was literally upright and had wedged himself into the wall, completely still with the exception of breathing. Clearly, I could tell something was wrong but I could also tell that Jerry was breathing (and as long as we have gas everything really is ok) and based on his body posture, lack of panicky motion, I believed he was either experiencing some sort of pain or talking himself down inside his head. Either way, and especially if he was dealing with fear I thought it best to watch the situation rather than intervene. I don't know if I did the best thing or not. I'm glad my assumption was correct.

    Dominick Gheesling

    Hike your own hike.

  3. #23

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    "@rddvet:

    The standing things wasn't exactly a trained, agency approved technique for managing this situation. It was just one of those things that I found myself in. "

    I had an instructor tell me "Survival does not have to be elegant, just effective".

    If a stupid idea works, it's a good idea.

    Glad you're OK.

    Take only photos, leave only bubbles, kill only time.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FW View Post
    The wetness was covered in post #16
    Read it but totallt missed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrwhy01 View Post
    @rddvet:

    The standing things wasn't exactly a trained, agency approved technique for managing this situation. It was just one of those things that I found myself in. When the hyperventilation started the first thing that came over me was shock and disbelief that can be best described by the phrase "oh $#!*." What happened next was basically me grabbing onto the closest thing I could get ahold of and somehow within a few seconds I found myself basically standing on the cave floor pushing myself down with my hands and up with my feet so that I was stabilized. I couldn't tell you why I did this, just that I did.

    In retrospect there are a few things I gleaned from this experience but ultimately I'm still not sure what exactly happened. And given that, I can't say with any certainty that this wouldn't have happened if I did anything different. At this point I'm still curious as to what exactly happened to cause this.

    @ KenSUF: I don't think it was that. I could be wrong, but it defiantly didn't feel like it.
    Hopefully my response wasn't judgy, as it wasn't meant to be. Just a overall feeling of what should be garnered from your experience as well as a personal recognition that those little pearls my instructors pushed more than others are whorthwhile


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gschaut View Post
    "@rddvet:

    The standing things wasn't exactly a trained, agency approved technique for managing this situation. It was just one of those things that I found myself in. "

    I had an instructor tell me "Survival does not have to be elegant, just effective".
    Glad you're OK.
    Agreed, as long as it doesn't lead to other issues. I think it situations like this it's not the problem that kills people. It's either not recognizing a problem until its way too late to recover or allowing one problem to create a cascade of further problems. Sucks not to breathe, sucks even more if your response leads to a siltout, which then leads your buddy who's your backup gas supply to not be able to find you.

    Obviously in these situations you never know how you'll react until it happens.
    If a stupid idea works, it's a good idea.


  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverhippi View Post
    My biggest understandings, lessons from this experience with a little reflection:

    1. For myself, I really want to slow the pace down. This covers so much including the CO2 buildup that likely led to the breathing difficulty. It also really addresses that idea to progress slowly into the system. I know I've read that in multiple places but more often than not I feel like I am covering a great deal more ground than I need to in lots of dives I have been on with several different partners. I want to see the cave and I want to see the cave in a manner where I begin to learn the personality of the system and the visual way-points of the systems landscape. I love the mentioned idea of just taking a break to look around every so often during a dive.

    2. I absolutely agree with the statement regarding gear changes, even what I would have previously considered minute changes. For some reason (probably age related) any change to my rig takes multiple dives for me to adapt to. I also think that the overhead environment amplifies the situation; In open water it was not that big a deal but in the overhead scenario everything has to work, has to work the way I expect it to work, has to be located pretty much exactly where I think it should be and I probably don't take this as seriously as need be considering the ramifications when the gear doesn't work. I need to be more amenable to the idea of scheduling a gear shakedown dive with a buddy of lesser scope/penetration than normal (which is time well spent not a waste of time) and if that goes well then yes lets dive again.

    3. Really glad that you shared this experience Jerry. By the way, yes it was frightening seeing Jerry immobile 2000' from the surface. He was literally upright and had wedged himself into the wall, completely still with the exception of breathing. Clearly, I could tell something was wrong but I could also tell that Jerry was breathing (and as long as we have gas everything really is ok) and based on his body posture, lack of panicky motion, I believed he was either experiencing some sort of pain or talking himself down inside his head. Either way, and especially if he was dealing with fear I thought it best to watch the situation rather than intervene. I don't know if I did the best thing or not. I'm glad my assumption was correct.
    Some good observations. Cave diving is really more mental than physical, and even though someone has had a class, and signed off on with skills needed to have the c-card issued, there is time needed to integrate gear, skills, and the mental aspect. Caves and wet rocks aren't going anywhere, doing slow progressive penetrations are important to this developmental process, which reduces anxiety. Now that something has "gone wrong" for the team, building up that confidence, and over coming anxiety related to longer dives, it is imperative that you get back in the water with tune up dives, and start adding slow, progressive distance. Cave diving is a journey,not a mission, if you are not having fun, and developing at a progressive pace, then the sport can bite back. Have fun, and dive safe.

    "Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick

  7. #27

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    I experienced a dark narc CO2 build up during my first deco (training) dive and it was the scariest experience in my lifetime. I ended up going solo and pulling all of my experience and courage together to get out of the water safely. Later, I stubbornly and foolishly did a few more dives with similar profiles and came to realize exactly where my body stood on the deep air debate. It ain't for me.

    I can't only imagine how frightening it must have been in an overhead environment far from the exit, having to swim out and no immediate ability to get shallow and reduce the wob. I'm so glad you made it and I too am taking it very slowly before I begin my cave journey.


  8. #28
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    Thanks for sharing. Glad it worked out. Don't worry about your body position, in a situation like that, you do anything you have to do to get out safely. My #1 rule of cave conservation is not to litter the inside of the cave by leaving behind a corpse.

    All of you guys remember, there have been some really experienced cave divers, I mean expedition level divers with hundreds of dives, that have panicked for some reason and drowned. If you are not feeling right about a dive or a day, or are preoccupied with something, just don't go. If you think you are immune, you are wrong.

    "If we could just find out who's in charge, we could kill him."
    "If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten"
    "I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it"
    "Just cause you got the monkey off your back doesn't mean the circus has left town."
    "One tequila, Two tequila, Three tequila, Floor"

    George Carlin 6-22-2008


    "Into the blue again; in the silent water
    Under the rocks, and stones; there is water underground" Talking Heads

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by OFG-1 View Post
    expedition level divers with hundreds of dives
    Sounds like Ginnie just about every weekend.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


  10. #30
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    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draker View Post
    Sounds like Ginnie just about every weekend.
    Legends in their own minds, one and all.

    "If we could just find out who's in charge, we could kill him."
    "If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten"
    "I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it"
    "Just cause you got the monkey off your back doesn't mean the circus has left town."
    "One tequila, Two tequila, Three tequila, Floor"

    George Carlin 6-22-2008


    "Into the blue again; in the silent water
    Under the rocks, and stones; there is water underground" Talking Heads


 

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