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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrpai View Post
    I use the Hog D1s for back gas and the Deep6 reg (similiar to Hog D3) for deco. I like the form factor of the reg as it allows the low pressure turret to fully rotate giving me nice hose routing. Deep6 goes one step further and includes your first service kit right in the box.

    * I don't know much about Deep6 regs.. but I thought their big thing was that they service them for life? why would they include an annual kit with a new reg?

    Some don't like to use diaphragm regulators because they see the diaphragm as a big fuel source for a fire. I'm not to worried about that.
    This seems a bit far fetched... has anyone had/known of a reg exploding with 100% o2 use? I would think a piston style reg would burn/explode just as easy as a diphragm reg if conditions were right, but I've never heard of this happening.

    Not a hit on Chrpai, but I've heard the same comments elsewhere and find it a bit odd.


  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaCaveDiver View Post
    This seems a bit far fetched... has anyone had/known of a reg exploding with 100% o2 use? I would think a piston style reg would burn/explode just as easy as a diphragm reg if conditions were right, but I've never heard of this happening.

    Not a hit on Chrpai, but I've heard the same comments elsewhere and find it a bit odd.
    when you open up diaphragms that have a long history of O2 use, especially in cave country where O2 is pumped to 3000psi, the diaphragms usually have some sort of crispiness on them. Level of crispiness dependent on how much O2 use it sees. I.e. the instructors regulators are usually more than those of us not fortunate enough to be in cave country.
    I have not heard of one actually going up because of it, but it's a factor. Is it one to have me avoid a diaphragm? no, but I will choose to use a piston if I can. Less disruptive gas path in general and due to the larger flow area, the gas velocity should be quite a bit lower as well *high flow is a good thing*


  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbone1004 View Post
    when you open up diaphragms that have a long history of O2 use, especially in cave country where O2 is pumped to 3000psi, the diaphragms usually have some sort of crispiness on them. Level of crispiness dependent on how much O2 use it sees. I.e. the instructors regulators are usually more than those of us not fortunate enough to be in cave country.
    I have not heard of one actually going up because of it, but it's a factor. Is it one to have me avoid a diaphragm? no, but I will choose to use a piston if I can. Less disruptive gas path in general and due to the larger flow area, the gas velocity should be quite a bit lower as well *high flow is a good thing*
    In your experience are you seeing this "crispiness" on Regulators that haven't been serviced in a long time or is this within the normal one or two year service interval?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaCaveDiver View Post
    In your experience are you seeing this "crispiness" on Regulators that haven't been serviced in a long time or is this within the normal one or two year service interval?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    I don't know many cave divers that actually service their gear on the recommended interval.... Pretty much all of them service it when something goes wrong. Now there are exceptions to that, but I haven't seen any of their regulators since they either DIY it, or are part of a shop and have their guys do it. I will repeat that it isn't something that would have me avoid using a diaphragm *you pretty much have to use them for any of the mCCR rebreathers*, and I have them on my rebreather, but it is a thing to think about if buying new. The diaphragms are normally made out of EPDM so while it is a potential source of fuel, and a big one, the IP is low enough that you'd have to have all sorts of things go wrong before there was enough pressure in there to cause any real fire risks imo.
    The diaphragm is only ever exposed to IP, there should be at least one downstream pressure relief point in either an OPV or a second stage, so it should never get high enough that it should light. Even at extreme depths, it's only ~300psi.

    On the piston regs, the pistons are usually a more O2 resistant material *should be the same as the HP seat material on a diaphragm reg*, and since there isn't a diaphragm in there, it is theoretically better. How much does it matter? I'm not sure at all otherwise no one would use diaphragm regs with O2.


  5. #15

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    I've never had a problem with a diaphragm, but did have some HP Poppet seals give out. I used a Mares MR12 1st stage for about 10 years. I forget if it was the poppet seat material, or the small o-ring that goes around it that was the problem. One of the two wasn't the best material for O2 and a couple of times it gave out. After the last time I swapped it out for a cheap OMS "O2" reg. No cleaning out of the box, and works fine at 20'. The MR12 only got cleaned and maintenanced when it went into O2 service, and then maybe only when the HP seats went. Likely I would of had better success with a regular maintenance schedule.


  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sludge View Post
    I can't figure out why anyone would breathe a great regulator during a dive, then switch to a piece of crap for a long deco. All of my regs are the same (Mark 20 with G-250).


    Well the difference in actual workload demand should be obvious..
    During a dive: Reg needs to deliver a good WOB along all actual and potential extreme exposures..including elevated SAC rates for stress, fast exits etc etc.
    the last thing I want there is a CO2 redemption issue induced by overbreathing etc. in such circumstances I am already dealing with enough..


    At deco.. hmm I will be static and resting. I might have experienced a rough exit, but I have a lot of time to calm and when I am not calm enough yet and know "I have a bad reg on my O2" I might even stay on my backgas a bit longer..
    So to sum it up I would generally expect to be calm and rested once I get to O2..


    So why should this be a top notch state of the art reg again?


    If I am going to buy one specifically and I am not on a budget, sure one can just go for the good ones one uses for different purposes as well (as it will also grant more flexibility in overall managing regs), but if someone still has an "old" reg that just needs O2 service to us it as deco reg instead of having to buy a new one..
    Why not? I do not see any issue with that!

    Last edited by Sludge; 03-13-2018 at 12:30 AM. Reason: remove profanity

  7. #17

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    @nitrogenius, there is a difference in "old" and "good". A scubapro 109 is "old", but "good", an Oceanic Slimline is "new", but "crap".

    It's all about comfort and compounding issues. Sure, the slimline breathes, but do you really want to be on it for 2 hours? No....

    Now, the original second stages that popped up were the Dive Rite which is the same as their XT2 primaries, and the DGX Deep6 which is a generic balanced second from ODS. Both are high performance seconds. You see a lot of people using old Sherwood Bruts, and other just bad performing second stages and those can compound any issues you had getting to your O2 bottle, but it's also the reg that you are most likely on for the longest amount of time so they're uncomfortable at best


  8. #18

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    Sure the reg in question should have some "minimum" comfort and not utterly bad.
    I was more pointing at having different quality/specs than the choice for Backgas regs.. I just don't think they must be the same and that there is no logic using a different (potentially lower quality) reg for deco given the different demand by default..


    and yes there is great old regs and bad new ones

    Last edited by Sludge; 03-13-2018 at 12:31 AM. Reason: remove profanity

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbone1004 View Post
    . You see a lot of people using old Sherwood Bruts,
    Sherwood Bruts 1st stages surprisingly deliver a lot of gas and function at a fairly high performance level,but the second stage is the guilty culprit when it come to providing gas. I have seen Bruts with G250s, and they delivered a lot of gas at depth. Sherwood have fallen out of favor in cave diving because of the dry bleed mechanism that triggers the "bubble" concern that is innate in cave divers. Sherwood was considered one of the best sidemount regulators because of the small foot print, highly durable, and extremely low failure rate.

    "Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick

  10. #20

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    @kelly, it was the seconds I was talking about



 

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