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  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by OFG-1 View Post
    In order to share air that implies a dive team of at least 2. Lights out implies that you have 6 light failures during the dive, and with helmet lights, probably more.
    It isn't just light failure in "lights out", that covers zero viz like in silt-out. And that is more likely to happen in teams vs solo.


  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by OFG-1 View Post
    Oliver, you keep flogging this, and I admit that I have not read everyones training standards, however, let me ask you this. In order to share air that implies a dive team of at least 2. Lights out implies that you have 6 light failures during the dive, and with helmet lights, probably more. Lights are so far superior than what we had years ago, but even so, I have never seen or heard of this.
    It simulates sharing air in a zero vis situation.


  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by OFG-1 View Post
    Oliver, you keep flogging this, and I admit that I have not read everyones training standards, however, let me ask you this. In order to share air that implies a dive team of at least 2. Lights out implies that you have 6 light failures during the dive, and with helmet lights, probably more. Lights are so far superior than what we had years ago, but even so, I have never seen or heard of this.

    Isn't this akin to having 3 regulator failures and having to buddy breathe to get out? Are there more realistic skills, such as lost line recoveries that should warrant more attention? What about a wing failure in a group of 2, I have had that happen 2400 feet in a cave, swimming in a wet suit. I understand confidence building, however, why are you so focused on such a low probability event?
    You don't do a lights out skill to train in the unlikely event of 6 light failures. You teach a lights out drill to train in the likely event of a total silt out. What's the chain of events? Diver goes oog, in the course of that chaos, either he or his buddy zeroes vis trying to get gas to the diver oog. We're not training lights out because we think you're going to have 6 lights go.


  4. #74
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    Right on the Ragged Edge
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    Well that makes perfect sense. Sorry, I had not thought of it that way. I am so used to having crap for visibility south of Tally.

    Thanks guys, I had forgotten this. I kinda remember doing this in my class but the instructor had us cover our masks with a piece of a black trash bag held on with a rubber band so it could be removed quickly if anyone freaked.

    And Oliver, as I said, I have not looked through standards in a long time, and no, I am not suggesting that anyone not meet standards.

    "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture."
    "Modern Americans behave as if intelligence were some sort of hideous deformity."
    "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life."


    Frank Zappa 12-4-93



    "There she was - the cave. Like a big craggy jaw, waiting to snap at anything that came along." Lloyd "Mike Nelson" Bridges 3-10-1998

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by OFG-1 View Post
    I understand confidence building, however, why are you so focused on such a low probability event?
    It's about dealing with low to no viz and staying calm, trimmed out and able to make a good exit when it happens in real life.
    I've not made the standards but they are there for a reason. It's not up to the instructor to leave stuff out just because he, you or I think a drill may not be relevant.
    His agency does or should care and the instructor is not only robbing the student of the experience, he is possibly endangering him.

    About a month after our cave class my buddy got into a tight sidemount tunnel, in backmount, due to bad judgement. He got stuck and the vis turned to zero.
    He told me afterwards that he thought his instructor had turned off the light, until of course he realized he was on his own. He was scared as hell but remembered how he did it in training and was able to resolve it.
    It took him 12 minutes to back out of that passage which for a beginner is a long time in such a stressful situation. Having done the OOA lights out drill eight times in total during our class, seemed to have helped him.


  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by OFG-1 View Post
    And Andrew, I am pleased to see you still lurking around, come see me.
    One day, John, one day! Every time I think this job gets easier it gets harder instead. I got some dives in on a trip to Cancun with my wife and her family. Conning them to go to Tallahassee is a bit harder though!

    Andrew Ainslie

    Almost extinct cave diver

  7. #77
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    You guys are taking this too seriously. I think Pete was just trolling us with a dumb idea. He's prolly sitting back eating turkey and laughing at everyone who thought this was even remotely serious.

    -James Garrett
    http://www.jamesg.net
    Quote Originally Posted by Sl├╝dge View Post
    ...AL...he's just about worthless for anything other than giving you extra gas.

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by jj1987 View Post
    You guys are taking this too seriously. I think Pete was just trolling us with a dumb idea. He's prolly sitting back eating turkey and laughing at everyone who thought this was even remotely serious.
    Well played. Thanks for the laughs Pete.

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

    Jeff Rouse
    Chicago, IL

  9. #79

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    Just two more pages till Tony cancels his account, Gentlemen it's time to step up. Andrew, it's good to see you back.

    Www.artflowslikewater.com
    Brendan's Law - "Know what you're breathing. Analyze your gas for O2 and Co. Analyze your gas each time, everytime, anywhere."

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo View Post
    Just two more pages till Tony cancels his account, Gentlemen it's time to step up. Andrew, it's good to see you back.
    LMAO.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success."

    Earnest Shackleton


 

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