Thanks for the write-up (and disclosing your affiliation). Getting into this field as well, would you be willing to share your thoughts on the KISS Classic and why you prefer the Fathom? We can do this via PM as well, if you prefer. I am asking, as I just bought a KISS and would be interested to see what could be improved (being new to CCRs as well).
I call BS on this caption: "Author with Fathom rebreather before a recent dive at Madison Blue Springs." -- riiiight, sure. :P
Ken Sallot
Hey, read the forward. I said it was originally written in 2016.Originally Posted by kensuf
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I've never dove a KISS Classic so I can't speak beyond window shopping. The big pluses for me on the Fathom vs KISS classic were the radial scrubber, the needle valve, the counterlungs, and the head design.
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Fathom ccr has a much higher flood tolerance, and it can take a much bigger scrubber. Ken could comment better on the classic than I ever could, but it's very hard to dump water fully out of the unit. On the fathom, there's a water trap on the exhale t-piece and a dump facing down on the lung making it very easy to dump.
Also, the valve up configuration makes it really easy to mount anything from 2l - lp50's on the unit for any type of dive. (3L work great for anything under 8hr though)
If Gordon Smith were still alive and working on designing newer incarnations of the KISS Classic, they would probably look a lot like the Fathom. Here are the things that the Fathom does much better than a Classic:
1. Counterlungs - no MSR bags that are nearly impossible to attach to the head.
2. Needle valve / O2 MAV - The Fathom needle valve / O2 MAV is made out of Delrin rather than molded plastic. I know of at least one stripped thread in the KISS MAV that happened during servicing.
3. ADV - The optional ADV on the Fathom is light years better than the KISS Adv. "Don't hold a negative for more than 60 seconds or you'll warp the diaphragm" -- really??
4. Scrubber - The KISS Classic has one scrubber size and the shape/length of the scrubber increases work of breathing more than is needed. You have multiple scrubber options with the Fathom.
5. Body - I watched Charlie take a hammer to the body of a Fathom while demonstrating how tough it was. I would shudder to think of doing that to a Classic.
6. Sensors pt 1 - The Fathom sensors are aligned in such a way that water should not bead on the faces. Additionally, when you do a DIL flush the gas is blown across the faces cleaning/drying them.
7. Sensors pt 2 - No kidneys with the risk of pinching the molex wires.
8. BOV - Shrimp, need I say more?
Don't get me wrong, the KISS Classic was a very decent unit and I'm glad I put 250 hours on one, but it is a 20 year old design with the only real updates being to cut away the clam-shell body to make it easier to install the MSR bags (you can do this with a dremmel, btw) and moving the O2 port 1/2 cm so you don't accidentally crack the head when servicing the unit.
Ken Sallot
My sidekick mav (same as classic) stripped during servicing. That?s why I ended up switching to the gorilla mav. Charlie?s mav is rock solid. You can also uncap the reg with it so you can go past 600.
I spent the week last week diving with and hanging around a diver with a Fathom. It's a surprisingly great unit with immense scalability and a simplistic design. I'm definitely a fan. The breakdown isn't quite as easy as an SF2, but really not a bear as some are. Size and weight are ideal for travelling with the unit.
I assume being local to cave county and me, that the customer service if needed would be easy.
It's moved to the top of my list.
Sounds like a great unit, anyone any idea what the WOB is like if your not in 'perfect trim'? i.e. if it was being used in wreck diving?
Cheers
Cathal
Person I dove with said there was no major issue with wob other than typical with any rebreather (ie heads up isnt as good as in trim)
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