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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by rddvet View Post
    You've obviously gotten "answers" albeit mixed with the usual responses you garner, so closing the thread doesn't seem to make sense. I don't think the mods would close any other thread of similar nature, so not sure why yours should be.
    I agree, lets collect some information in regards to the alleged changes in the tables. So far the information seems to be somewhat conflicting. Ross posted some changes that don't make it sound like the Navy tables have become more conservative. Jax claims TDI's tables are based on new Navy tables that have become more conservative.
    Something doesn't add up....


  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bent View Post
    Maybe you should read you're OP again.

    If you're really interested in why TDI changed their tables and not the questions, you should ask Brian Carney directly. He is very responsive to emails and I'm sure he'll be glad to help you out.
    NO. . . TDI did not change "their" Table. TDI's book, "Extended Range / Trimix", lists the new Navy table.

    The fastest way to tell the difference is the new table does not have a 10fsw stop.

    The question is not "why did TDI change", the question is "why such a huge difference"?

    Quote Originally Posted by nakatomi View Post
    I agree, lets collect some information in regards to the alleged changes in the tables. So far the information seems to be somewhat conflicting. Ross posted some changes that don't make it sound like the Navy tables have become more conservative. Jax claims TDI's tables are based on new Navy tables that have become more conservative.
    Something doesn't add up....
    In the *old US Navy Air Decompression Table* a dive to 160fsw for 25 min had a deco obligation of 4:20 to first stop, to 7min @ 20fsw + 20 min @ 10fsw or a total deco of 32:20. You came out as a group K.

    In the new US Navy Air Decompression Table, a dive to 160fsw for 25 min has a 4:20 ascent, a stop at 30 for 3 min, @ 20 for 49 min for a total deco of 49 min, and you come out as group N.

    32 / 49 = 65%, which means deco is increased 35% over the old table.

    Put another way, 49min is 153% of the old table.

    What has changed to cause such a huge increase in conservatism?

    Note - the only reason TDI came up at all is because the book problems, which one could plan perfectly well, within given parameters, on the old tables, were not doable within those parameters with the new table. One would need stage bottles to complete the dives.

    By the way, in the new Navy dive table, if you over-stay your 25 minute dive at 160fsw, your deco obligation goes from 49:00min to 73:40 min.

    All opinions are my own and do not reflect the view of the board.

    "If a small thing has the power to make you angry, does that not indicate something about your size?" ~Sydney J. Harris

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jax View Post
    NO. . . TDI did not change "their" Table. TDI's book, "Extended Range / Trimix", lists the new Navy table.

    The fastest way to tell the difference is the new table does not have a 10fsw stop.

    The question is not "why did TDI change", the question is "why such a huge difference"?

    It's probably due to political correctness or because some 'scientist' egghead decided it would make the illumi... ahhh the government look better. That's the only explanation I can think right now... it can't be because they're trying to reduce cases of DCI, cos that would be ridiculous.

    Did ask you're instructor about that? I'd love to hear that discussion.

    BTW: It's funny how you ignore ever single answer you don't like.


  4. #74
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    Why are you using tables and not software to plan decompression and trimix dives?
    With software you can use a well known algorithm (either VPM or Buehlmann) and incorporate conservatism as required or desired.
    Here is how I would plan such a dive, leaving aside the fact that I would not be using air and certainly not decompressing on air.
    Also I like 10' stops since they help to reduce CNS load.
    With software you can use all kinds of gases and stop strategies, tables are pretty much static.


    Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

    Last edited by nakatomi; 09-19-2017 at 01:22 PM.

  5. #75
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    Because, class. Instructor wants us to follow the instructions in the book. One meets the training standards as presented.

    All opinions are my own and do not reflect the view of the board.

    "If a small thing has the power to make you angry, does that not indicate something about your size?" ~Sydney J. Harris

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bent View Post
    BTW: It's funny how you ignore ever single answer you don't like.
    On the contrary, I give such answers all the attention they deserve.

    All opinions are my own and do not reflect the view of the board.

    "If a small thing has the power to make you angry, does that not indicate something about your size?" ~Sydney J. Harris

  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jax View Post
    Because, class. Instructor wants us to follow the instructions in the book. One meets the training standards as presented.
    I may be mistaken, but the last time I looked at the TDI standards, they did NOT include the requirement to use those problems or the tables in the book. And it would be better training to use software, since that is what you do in real life.


  8. #78
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    Why waste time learning a method you don't intend to use?


  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by PfcAJ View Post
    Why waste time learning a method you don't intend to use?

    Been reading this humor and usually stay out. But that is like saying why learn 1+1? Or even abcs if you are not a math but English guy.


  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by tursiops View Post
    I may be mistaken, but the last time I looked at the TDI standards, they did NOT include the requirement to use those problems or the tables in the book. And it would be better training to use software, since that is what you do in real life.
    Quote Originally Posted by PfcAJ View Post
    Why waste time learning a method you don't intend to use?
    When I "hire" an instructor, I accept everything s/he is teaching, I learn his or her way. I'm not there to show "hey, I can do this". Why pay a professional if you are not going to learn?

    I have never used ratio deco but I learned it. Knowledge is never wasted. There is always something to learn.

    All opinions are my own and do not reflect the view of the board.

    "If a small thing has the power to make you angry, does that not indicate something about your size?" ~Sydney J. Harris


 

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