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Thread: Waterhole III?

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diverlee View Post
    Oh yes I remember. Lol. I fell going down to Orange Grove. Almost got a cypress knob where the sun doesn't shine.
    Fell walking to P1 before the steps too. Fell walking out of Bonnet. Luckily I was dating someone when I used to go in and out of Olsen. He carried my tanks. There weren't that many divers back then. I can only imagine how it would be now!


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    LOL. I remember seeing a couple surfaced at Olsen and had a primary light failure. His girlfriend was struggling climbing up the sink slope. She had her light butt mounted, and kept yelling, if you fall, just don't fall backwards

    "Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop View Post
    I hear your frustration,and I won't change your mind,but there are facts. Olsen was never closed because of a rare orchid, but due to significant erosion that happened down the banks from divers walking up and down the trail. The denuded vegetation and exposed roots were of concern. I remember being around when a reassessment was done after one year to see if would reopen, and the head biologist voiced the same concern. In fact, many years later when the interpretive trail was being designed, the decision to place the overlook where it is now is relative to that same erosion. Waterhole was closed initially because a tree fell in the basin and blocked the entrance. We investigated it from the other side and cleared branches away to allow an egress,but the decision was to close to entry due to erosion that was occurring and erosion mitigation due lack of a path and steps. Bonnet has been technically closed to divers for many years. The gator at one time was of concern, and erosion on the path to the spring from the parking area, and along the bank into the water. Presently a gator would be of concern because there are a lot of chirping babies with a zero viz basin. If you read the current Peacock management plan (please goggle it), you will see me quoted in to provide some provision for reopening it. You hear erosion brought up, and that is strong concern the state has for management of the resource but allowing recreation. You can look at places like Telford, Cow, and Little River pre-concrete to see how big of a problem it can be. In fairness I have permit access to several sites- #1 anybody is allowed to join our team, #2 every dive requires an approved dive plan by the park, a post dive report, and a lengthy report which includes the summary of data. All permit holders, and this includes other dive groups have to do the same process, and only people on a list that is approved by the state can dive there. So it isn't a private dive site, and if you are caught taking friends that aren't on the permit, then you lose your permit. There are multiple groups that have permit access to many sites, including DEP and Water Management, and all of them accept help. Become part of their team, but be prepared to work because these aren't recreational dives,but dives with a specific goal that have to provide tangible benefits that are reported. I been doing fauna counts with water quality survey for over 12 years, I can only report the facts as I know them.
    Sorry guys. The erosion at Telford and Little River was not from divers. Take a look at those sites on a weekend or holiday and watch all the drunk river rats. Nuf said.


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  3. #23

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    Dog Diver that is exactly what i was talking about. If this is such a big problem with the divers why havent steps been installed at peacock iii. The smoke and mirrors I was referring to is very well stated by the mere mention of Al capone or 911 it just doesnt get anymore childish with these kind of statements. As if this diverts from the topic. The problem with this kind of dialog is that the individuals making these kind of statements think that the rest of us dumb ass hillbilly cave divers buy into this BS. Any of us that have been diving long enough know better than the propaganda that is being spread by these elite few. Also I know first hand that Bonnet is being dove by these special interest groups without these so called reports and so do many more. Lets face it we all see (that visit frequently) the lack of park supervision and if you are well known to that area, or live close they dont question them. We all on this forum unless new to cave diving know who I am talking about. Without violating the rules i will let them remain anonymous. What i do still find amusing is dont harm the plants, dont harm the aquifer, dont harm the sinks, it all should remain natural. However if its there idea it should be done. A tree falls naturally in the sink we need to go in there and clean it out. the cave collapses and we will formulate a plan to reopen it. We need bigger access to the springs put in a road. The plants are deluded so put in a giant walkway and stairs where no plant life can grow. Cut down more trees and plants for changing stations. The heck with all that when all else fails put in huge concrete walks and remove all plant life. All this in the place of a small foot path to the water. Nobody is buying the BS anymore. It doesnt end outside the water either. Somebody gets pissed about the scooters and then they get banned, so lets put in a rope that does so much more damage to the cave. Oh no I can can hear it now. Think about these high flow caves with no worn out walls and no gouges in the floor, No hand prints everywhere you look. But wait, people dont know how to scooter they will damage everything; they are doing it now without the scooter. Scooters should be used not to go further but to prevent further damage. You need a cert to cave dive you need one to scooter will that stop the incompetence most certainly not. If the diving community can hunt down and prosecute cave damage than it should be done with all damage if you are caught. Reading these post about closures because of whatever these elite few want to tell you are the same few that do the damage to these caves its just their idea.


  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by cavediver01 View Post
    why havent steps been installed at peacock iii. .
    This concern was brought up by the state at the unit management plan meeting for Peacock springs that was held at Stephen Foster state park a number of years ago. At that meeting Jim Wyatt, Michael Poucher and myself were there. If memory serves correctly it was commented that nobody uses the old P3 entrance anymore, and users are entering from the area closer to P2 that is rocky and less soil. The comment was made it would be monitored.

    Recommended reading :http://www.dep.state.fl.us/parks/pla...sStatePark.pdf

    "Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop View Post
    Bonnet has been technically closed to divers for many years. The gator at one time was of concern, and erosion on the path to the spring from the parking area, and along the bank into the water. Presently a gator would be of concern because there are a lot of chirping babies with a zero viz basin......

    I been doing fauna counts with water quality survey for over 12 years, I can only report the facts as I know them.
    Ever moving goalposts for Bonnet. But hey Kelly can count bugs so it's all good for him.


  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by PfcAJ View Post
    Ever moving goalposts for Bonnet. But hey Kelly can count bugs so it's all good for him.
    I am not the only who has a permit there, my understanding is KUR is accessing the site. Yes I do have a permit there and do faunal counts and water quality survey, and will be happy to provide the data since it is on file with the park. My records show last fauna count was October 7, 2015 , conditions have been so bad that we haven't been able to do consistent work there. Unlike 15 years ago when Bonnet was good most of the time with water out flow, now after a flood there is maybe a two week window that it is divable, and then it is stagnant pool with zero viz in the cave. I have several hydrogeologist on the permit, and have inquired why the change in conditions, with several theories. Post #17 describes that the park closed Bonnet to diving and why, and if you read http://www.dep.state.fl.us/parks/pla...sStatePark.pdf you will see that I got it off the complete closure list, and what needs to be done. AJ I would think you would have some understanding of the permit process and what goes into it, and the WKPP has had same accusations with exclusive access to sites and criticism,with people missing the past history of exploration and connections.

    Hence #1 I don't have exclusive access #2 Haven't been in there in almost 2 years #3 the reason the park closed the site #4 what would need to be done to reopen it

    Last edited by Kelly Jessop; 08-12-2017 at 09:24 AM.
    "Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick

  7. #27

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    I find those who complain the most and the loudest usually do the least...

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    Jeff Rouse
    Chicago, IL

  8. #28
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    Gator! Erosion! Visibility!

    Uh huh.


  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by PfcAJ View Post
    Gator! Erosion! Visibility!

    Uh huh.

    AJ, you have extreme talent as a technical diver, and have great advice that provides excellent mentoring. You are a person with doing team diving with permit access I would think would understand the most. All I can do is provide the truth that is backed up,but I won't perform revisionist history. So.....

    Bored at home! Like cave drama! Not much activity on Scubaboard!

    ah- hah.


    "Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop View Post
    AJ, you have extreme talent as a technical diver, and have great advice that provides excellent mentoring. You are a person with doing team diving with permit access I would think would understand the most. All I can do is provide the truth that is backed up,but I won't perform revisionist history. So.....

    Bored at home! Like cave drama! Not much activity on Scubaboard!

    ah- hah.

    Thanks for the kind words. I do appreciate and understand permitting. I don't even have a problem with it being a permit site.

    My gripe is that the reasons for it being closed keep changing. Bad vis? Kinda like how cathedral had bad vis? Gator? The one no one's ever seen? And lol if you think there aren't other gators in the Slough. I seent 'em! Erosion? How much erosion can there be if no one ever dives it and couldn't erosion be mitigated the way it has been next door at Peacock and OG?

    It's just so hoaky and artificial.



 

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