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  1. #31

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    There are some procedural issues that are taught differently by instructors within most of the agencies. Jump's and T's are one, but that's easy to cover. However, one of the biggest emergency procedures differences is bump and go versus touch contact. I personally don't teach bump and go, except to discuss that it's "a thing," explain the reasons why I don't believe in it, and stress that a lot of people learn it and that it's an important to discuss procedures (like that) before getting in the water with a person for the first time.

    Ken Sallot

  2. #32

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    Makes sense but when we compare GUE vs Rest of the World then a tit-for-tat comparison may not do us justice. Here is some math when it comes to overall costs of TDI VS GUE cave divers.

    TDI
    Cavern = 400 USD
    Intro = 400 USD
    Apprentice = 400 USD
    Full Cave = 400 USD

    Total training cost = 1600 USD for the TDI guy

    GUE
    Fundies=800
    Cave 1 = 2200
    Total Cost for the GUE guy (trained to the level of Apprentice in TDI curriculum) = 3000 USD.

    Assume that the cost of a single cave dive after certification = 100 USD. I dont know the exact cost so I am using a rounded number. The TDI guy when he spends 3000 USD is the fellow who has done 14 real world dives on top of his training. GUE guy on the other hand has spent the same money but he only has the card and no real world experience. Which of the two fellows would you like as your dive buddy for the next cave dive?


  3. #33

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    @SUB ZERO, not sure if you are trolling or not. If not please do some reading as all this GUE vs every one else stuff has been well hashed out several times in the past.

    Not all good divers have training through GUE. What GUE offers isn't what everyone wants. GUE trains people to do things their way, some of that is the same as other agencies, some isn't. What I can tell you from personal experience is GUE typically has more class time in any 1 day of their training than many other instructors have in their entire class. Their classes start early and end late each day. With a lot of time in the water in between. This isn't meant to knock other agencies, there are excellent instructors not affiliated with GUE. Do your research before you choose.


    - Jeff

    Jeff Rouse
    Chicago, IL

  4. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    St Pete, Fl
    Age
    30
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    1,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SUB ZERO View Post
    Makes sense but when we compare GUE vs Rest of the World then a tit-for-tat comparison may not do us justice. Here is some math when it comes to overall costs of TDI VS GUE cave divers.

    TDI
    Cavern = 400 USD
    Intro = 400 USD
    Apprentice = 400 USD
    Full Cave = 400 USD

    Total training cost = 1600 USD for the TDI guy

    GUE
    Fundies=800
    Cave 1 = 2200
    Total Cost for the GUE guy (trained to the level of Apprentice in TDI curriculum) = 3000 USD.

    Assume that the cost of a single cave dive after certification = 100 USD. I dont know the exact cost so I am using a rounded number. The TDI guy when he spends 3000 USD is the fellow who has done 14 real world dives on top of his training. GUE guy on the other hand has spent the same money but he only has the card and no real world experience. Which of the two fellows would you like as your dive buddy for the next cave dive?
    I'd choose the gue guy everyday of the week.

    If saving nickels is your goal gue isn't for you. Nothing about it is cheap.


  5. #35
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    Jun 2011
    Location
    St Petersburg, FL
    Posts
    2,045

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    Quote Originally Posted by PfcAJ View Post

    If saving nickels is your goal gue isn't for you. Nothing about it is cheap.

    Pfft. It's on sale at target all the time





    *just a joke
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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  6. #36
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    Oct 2005
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    St Pete, Fl
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    30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rddvet View Post
    Pfft. It's on sale at target all the time





    *just a joke
    Hey at least it's real Kool Aid and not a knockoff!

    Some agencies have a great R&D dept. ripoff and duplicate


  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hammer View Post
    @SUB ZERO, not sure if you are trolling or not. If not please do some reading as all this GUE vs every one else stuff has been well hashed out several times in the past.

    Not all good divers have training through GUE. What GUE offers isn't what everyone wants. GUE trains people to do things their way, some of that is the same as other agencies, some isn't. What I can tell you from personal experience is GUE typically has more class time in any 1 day of their training than many other instructors have in their entire class. Their classes start early and end late each day. With a lot of time in the water in between. This isn't meant to knock other agencies, there are excellent instructors not affiliated with GUE. Do your research before you choose.


    - Jeff
    No not trolling at all. I actually like the GUE/UTD mind set and that is why I posted the original question. I am only trying to make a well informed decision because cave and tech is expensive. GUE seems to have a greater presence in the Florida area where I plan on doing most of my cave diving. UTD is closer to where I live but not many of them in the Florida area. TDI appears to be the cheapest but instructors would have to be carefully selected. After that dive buddies would also have to be selected as there is no TDI community out there. It seems like they all have something to positive to offer along with certain disadvantages as well.


  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUB ZERO View Post
    No not trolling at all. I actually like the GUE/UTD mind set and that is why I posted the original question. I am only trying to make a well informed decision because cave and tech is expensive. GUE seems to have a greater presence in the Florida area where I plan on doing most of my cave diving. UTD is closer to where I live but not many of them in the Florida area. TDI appears to be the cheapest but instructors would have to be carefully selected. After that dive buddies would also have to be selected as there is no TDI community out there. It seems like they all have something to positive to offer along with certain disadvantages as well.
    What is with the weird obsession with TDI? Outside of GUE, just about every tech instructor for any agency is in the $200-$250 per day range. Some just have flat per day pricing, others have slight variations with Cavern/Intro in the $700-$800 and Apprentice/Full $800 - $1000.

    You could look at someone like Dan Patterson who is non-GUE tech/cave instructor at Extreme Exposure and teaches a class very similar to GUE. Apart from him, I would also look at Ted McCoy and Ken Sallot. Everyone has their "favs"and there are other instructors out there, but I would be shocked if you weren't happy with 1 of those 3.

    As for agency, assuming not GUE, it doesn't really matter apart from how course is ultimately structured. NSS-CDS has 4 parts with possible stage included in full, 2 days each part; Naui has two parts with Cave 1 covering 3/4s of NSS-CDS over 5 days and Cave 2 covering full cave with a little bit of stage/survey.

    CDS method is fine if you plan on consistent/steady progression, but if you think you might take your time before going to full cave, I would probably look at the Cave 1 method because it technically allows for more within its standards and you are less likely to get bored/tempted to dive outside of training.


  9. #39
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    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    St Petersburg, FL
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by CptTightPants21 View Post
    What is with the weird obsession with TDI? Outside of GUE, just about every tech instructor for any agency is in the $200-$250 per day range. Some just have flat per day pricing, others have slight variations with Cavern/Intro in the $700-$800 and Apprentice/Full $800 - $1000.

    You could look at someone like Dan Patterson who is non-GUE tech/cave instructor at Extreme Exposure and teaches a class very similar to GUE. Apart from him, I would also look at Ted McCoy and Ken Sallot. Everyone has their "favs"and there are other instructors out there, but I would be shocked if you weren't happy with 1 of those 3.

    As for agency, assuming not GUE, it doesn't really matter apart from how course is ultimately structured. NSS-CDS has 4 parts with possible stage included in full, 2 days each part; Naui has two parts with Cave 1 covering 3/4s of NSS-CDS over 5 days and Cave 2 covering full cave with a little bit of stage/survey.

    CDS method is fine if you plan on consistent/steady progression, but if you think you might take your time before going to full cave, I would probably look at the Cave 1 method because it technically allows for more within its standards and you are less likely to get bored/tempted to dive outside of training.
    That's not exactly correct for naui I believe. Unless its changed. You need intro to tech, cavern, cave 1, then cave 2. You may have been encompassing the first two with cave 1.


  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by PfcAJ View Post
    I'd choose the gue guy everyday of the week.

    If saving nickels is your goal cave and technical diving isn't for you. Nothing about it is cheap.
    FTFY.

    Ken Sallot


 

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