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  1. #41
    Moderator CDF-STAFF Member
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    I'm thinking of putting Kelly in timeout for using "Sonny's" and "BBQ" in the same sentence.

    Okay, hijack over. This is a good discussion, whether tourist caves allow a slackening of the rules. I, for one, would be inclined to do things in the first 1,000' of Devil's I wouldn't do in most places. Not bust all the rules, but, for example, a visual jump at Hill 400.

    Whoever said money can't buy love never bought a puppy.

  2. #42

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    I hope they are teaching Rule 1 and Rule 2 to new cave divers.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slüdge View Post
    I'm thinking of putting Kelly in timeout for using "Sonny's" and "BBQ" in the same sentence.

    Okay, hijack over. This is a good discussion, whether tourist caves allow a slackening of the rules. I, for one, would be inclined to do things in the first 1,000' of Devil's I wouldn't do in most places. Not bust all the rules, but, for example, a visual jump at Hill 400.
    You definitely probably could do that jump and be fine and no issues. My issue is complacency. You, in particular, may not push it any further than that. On the other hand there is a large subset of people that will get the complacency ball rolling from there. Blind jumping to hill 400 leads to more blind jumps further in the cave, eventually leading to blind jumps in parts of the cave they've never seen.




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  4. #44

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    Ditto for doing circuits when you're only an intro to cave diver and don't even know which way is in and which way is out in a high flow system. A few of us, myself included, have made a few jokes here and there in this thread, but the accident files are littered with people doing dumb things that have been discussed here.

    Ken Sallot

  5. #45

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    Certain areas I get people choosing whether to run a line or not, I've been guilty too. Some areas I question their choice to not run a line but it's still their choice regardless of me thinking one should be run. Others areas I'm puzzled by the choice of not running a line and thinks it's just plain stupid and potentially dangerous to not run a line there.

    - Jeff

    Jeff Rouse
    Chicago, IL

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
    I hope they are teaching Rule 1 and Rule 2 to new cave divers.
    I thought that Rule 1 and Rule 2 were the same. Don't talk about fight club.

    "Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing"
    "If you can see the handwriting on the wall ... you're on the toilet."
    "You make me wish that birth control was retroactive."
    "A girl's legs are her best friends...but even the best of friends must part."

    Redd Foxx 10-11-91



    "There she was - the cave. Like a big craggy jaw, waiting to snap at anything that came along." Lloyd "Mike Nelson" Bridges 3-10-1998

  7. #47

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    Following rules and procedures, put in placed after accidents, is the way to go to stay and feel safer; it reduces stress and control adrenaline levels.

    No matter how many hours as an airplane pilot, flying the same plane, you have to go over the starting the engine, taking off, landing, etc. procedures. Skipping one step is the first link in the "chain of errors" that may lead to incidents and accidents.


  8. #48

    Default

    I can speak to this. Please place jumps as a matter of practice as I've seen the results of not doing so.


  9. #49

    Default Failure to ask the right questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop View Post
    Russell, I generally agree with what you have to say,but denoting something as acceptable in a tourist cave ads complacency to a plan because people infer two sets of rules. Overhead is overhead to me,regardless if it is Peacock, or some river cave in the Withlacoochee. Following a set of rules that increase survivability is applicable to all caves, and deviating increases your risk.


  10. #50

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    When I am asked to dive with a person I do not know, I ask to see their Full Cave Card.
    Quote Originally Posted by IRAP Administrator View Post
    A lady I know wanted to make a dive. She had learned to dive in Missouri, probably before the advent of gold line. She said she was a "trained cave diver" and I didn't think to ask what level. I later found out she was only Intro.

    Four of us did the Grand Tour at Devil's Eye. I placed a jump at the Park Bench to the Bone Room line. I had briefed everyone before the dive, and told them if we weren't to the Maple Leaf before they hit thirds, to turn the dive.

    Everything seemed to be going fine. We got to the end of the Bone Room line, and I had them hold the end of a spool, while I went across to the Maple Leaf, then I "reeled them in". We all headed toward the entrance. After a couple hundred feet, The lady signaled to turn the dive. I gave her the "this way our" hand signal, but she still was frantically thumbing the dive. I looked at her SPG, and she was well past thirds, meaning she hadn't been checking her SPG. She still had plenty of gas to get out. I showed her the gold line, and an arrow showing the way out. She still insisted on turning back upstream. This also meant she was ignoring the current, and had forgotten we pulled the jump reel at the Maple Leaf. I literally had to follow her upstream, and tackle her to turn her back toward the exit. She finally gave up fighting, and went sort of limp, like a dove in a dog's mouth, and followed us out.

    What I learned is to ask more specific questions, and probably check turn pressure of people I haven't dive with before.



 

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