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  1. #131

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    My permit just got approved too.


  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by bent View Post
    So what is the 1015th picture and the 50th youtube video of the Genovesa gonna do?
    You'll appreciate public awareness once you need the public's support to protect the caves. I for one, couldn't be happier at the Weeki Wachee group for posting lots of photos and videos of their dives. I cannot dive there, but if a bottled water plant, landfill, or anything else were to be looked at being built there, I guarantee you we'll be happy we have those photos. Alachua Sink was recently under development attack, and the documentation by divers using CCR and DPVs there was a tremendous help in getting it saved. I think you're underestimating how valuable documentation is, especially by a photographer of JP's quality.

    -James Garrett
    http://www.jamesg.net
    Quote Originally Posted by Slüdge View Post
    ...AL...he's just about worthless for anything other than giving you extra gas.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by jj1987 View Post
    You'll appreciate public awareness once you need the public's support to protect the caves. I for one, couldn't be happier at the Weeki Wachee group for posting lots of photos and videos of their dives. I cannot dive there, but if a bottled water plant, landfill, or anything else were to be looked at being built there, I guarantee you we'll be happy we have those photos. Alachua Sink was recently under development attack, and the documentation by divers using CCR and DPVs there was a tremendous help in getting it saved. I think you're underestimating how valuable documentation is, especially by a photographer of JP's quality.
    James, this is a different situation. In Weeki Wachee there're doing exploration (I assume) and there are lots of places in Florida that should be protected like in that Wal-mart case. I'm not disputing that it makes sense to document a project.
    The LIC caves in Mallorca are already protected and pretty well documented which is great. What good does it do to have a few more picture of cave that have already been well documented? Since all this new footage has popped on the internet in recent years, the situation got worse.
    Sometime here on CDF, threads about certain caves get taken down, because people worry that access could be lost, if the cave gets too much attention. This is exactly that happened here.

    And why would a project not tell what the project is about? I'm sure the Weeki Wachee guys would tell you what there're doing.

    Initially I thought GUE got a permit for a some specific project because GUE has more 'muscle' than we do. So I asked what it is about and asked them whether I can get in on it.
    Now I've been told that it's none if my business what they doing, how they did get permission and it's not a GUE project anyway. I know to you guys it's a funny story, I can't dive warmer caves anymore unless I spend 15 hour on a plane and spend 3 grand. To Mallorca I can get in 5 hours.


  4. #134

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    We have all to wait for the regulations to be written by the Direccion... and then when we know what the criteria and protocol is we can take it from there.

    This incident in all likelihood will be taken into account because it went on Facebook and there is data and a paper and electronic trail as to who arrived on the island and how and when and who accessed what cave and why and under whose authority.

    I hope the rules will not be Draconian, but I suspect and sincerely hope they will be clear and strict and only bona fide exploration, topography, and research will be allowed, with no commercial and tourist exploitation of the ZEC caves.

    There are 4500 charted and mapped caves on the island and plenty more not in the list, and for us all to respect the 30 ZEC ones it should not be difficult.

    www.rebreathermallorca.com - Just as equipment is not an acceptable substitute for the appropriate skill and experience, skill and experience are not an acceptable substitute for appropriate equipment. Plan all diving so that it can be completed safely without the action or inaction of a fellow diver.

  5. #135

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    Someone told me they dived in Santa Anyi, a cave of 350m length. Not Sagleda. But still a nice cave.

    The caves of Mallorca are on my list too.

    On facebook they wrote:
    We have been diving with and without local guides, yesterday at Cova des Drac and today a different area of Vallgornera. We shared the cave today with other cave-divers, both locals and from abroad. So it seems to be possible to get permit to dive there.


  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Germie View Post
    Someone told me they dived in Santa Anyi, a cave of 350m length. Not Sagleda. But still a nice cave.

    The caves of Mallorca are on my list too.

    On facebook they wrote:
    We have been diving with and without local guides, yesterday at Cova des Drac and today a different area of Vallgornera. We shared the cave today with other cave-divers, both locals and from abroad. So it seems to be possible to get permit to dive there.
    Don't assume people have an permit only because they dive there.
    Why don't you asked them who gave them the permit.


  7. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Germie View Post
    Someone told me they dived in Santa Anyi, a cave of 350m length. Not Sagleda. But still a nice cave.

    The caves of Mallorca are on my list too.

    On facebook they wrote:
    We have been diving with and without local guides, yesterday at Cova des Drac and today a different area of Vallgornera. We shared the cave today with other cave-divers, both locals and from abroad. So it seems to be possible to get permit to dive there.

    Somebody seems to have missed the point of this discussion..
    Why bother reading a whole thread if you can comment anyhow


  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by bent View Post
    Don't assume people have an permit only because they dive there.
    Why don't you asked them who gave them the permit.
    Oh, you were talking about GUE? I didn't catch that. I thought you were talking about friends of yours. We know what's on fb. This was not a GUE project.


  9. #139

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    I heard yesterday that this week the true and official protocol and procedures from Dirección... be circulated (at least to some)... It may not happen today, but it is increasingly likely they will come out soon.

    That is when as cavers we should all fight for what is best for these caves and for speleology.

    There are specious arguments which have been made by parties with a vested interest, for their own commercial personal benefit, and by others to restrict access because they are afraid that non locals with better equipment and technique can achieve more, particularly where long distance penetration is required.

    There have been arguments as well which truly are in support of conservation and speleology.

    Let us save our energy for when these protocols and procedures are published because as cavers where these are not reflective of the best interest of all cavers, local and non-local, and cave exploration and conservation, we may need to politely educate the local authority (they have little knowledge of the more technical aspects of caving and speleology) and have been exposed to the one-sided view of a privileged few with vested interest.

    So, this Gue incident happened and something good will come from it as it is a learning experience for all as to how these things can happen despite best effort and intentions of all Gue project members in good faith.

    Suggestion: leave the issue alone for a few weeks till the situation evolves naturally and at least till the Dirección... will make public the true and official procedures, protocol, and criterias, and we take it from there, in a democratic, open, and consultative manner.

    www.rebreathermallorca.com - Just as equipment is not an acceptable substitute for the appropriate skill and experience, skill and experience are not an acceptable substitute for appropriate equipment. Plan all diving so that it can be completed safely without the action or inaction of a fellow diver.

  10. #140

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    Amazing work:



    The end justifies the means (in this one occasion).

    www.rebreathermallorca.com - Just as equipment is not an acceptable substitute for the appropriate skill and experience, skill and experience are not an acceptable substitute for appropriate equipment. Plan all diving so that it can be completed safely without the action or inaction of a fellow diver.


 

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