Ben's Vortex

[Jax]

Me, too. That's why I believe cave diving has a higher tolerance for mistakes, but harsher consequences.

[Half-Fast]

To state it a little more simply, I think I'd just say that motorsports have a higher probability of hurting you, while cave diving has a higher probability of killing you.

Fortunately, most of the things that can kill you in a cave are avoidable with training and diligent attention. You can stuff a racecar into concrete through absolutely no fault of your own when a competitor screws up or screws you. At least in a cave there usually aren't 50 other people trying to get around the first corner ahead of you, and willing to break your neck to do so if necessary.

And I, too, have silted out caves, crashed sportbikes, and crashed racecars. If I had to make a choice, I'd take a siltout over bent sheet metal and broken bones.

[Benderr]

Which likely wouldn't have changed the end result. By that time the CO had binded with his hemoglobin enough to keep the O2 away. As fast as it happened it's very doubtful he would have survived even in OW.

I understood that you needed a blood transfusion so survive a significant CO hit. Is there some other treatment?

[Jim Wyatt]

I understood that you needed a blood transfusion so survive a significant CO hit. Is there some other treatment?

Hyperbaric O2 treatment.

[RN]

I understood that you needed a blood transfusion so survive a significant CO hit. Is there some other treatment?

The treatment for CO exposure at 1 ata is 12 hours breathing 100% O2. I've taken care of patients like this a few times. At higher pressures the treatment is a chamber ride, as Jim stated. At certain CO levels even 100% O2 will not be enough without the hyperbaric chamber.

[Tracydr]

I understood that you needed a blood transfusion so survive a significant CO hit. Is there some other treatment?

As Jim Wyatt and Rob say, hyperbaric O2. If you survive to get to the surface and reach help. Problem is, when the CO is breathed at depth, a small amount at the surface becomes a much higher partial pressure. Thus, a much bigger problem. Next thing you know, you're unconscious underwater and it's too late.

[Tracydr]

I'd rather silt out a cave than fall off of a motorcycle. I understand your point though.

Of course, caves don't come with animals with pea size brains that weigh 1200 pounds that spook at the sight of blowing paper which are jumped over 5 foot solid walls at 30 mph on muddy trails. Or, bulls where the object of the sport is to ride a 1 ton beast for 8 seconds and try to keep from being stomped and killed.

[floridakid]

As Jim Wyatt and Rob say, hyperbaric O2. If you survive to get to the surface and reach help. Problem is, when the CO is breathed at depth, a small amount at the surface becomes a much higher partial pressure. Thus, a much bigger problem. Next thing you know, you're unconscious underwater and it's too late.

Plus, CO in layman's terms makes it difficult for blood to transport oxygen. The symptoms of CO poisoning are a direct result of not being able to transport oxygen to the vital organs. That is why the treatment for CO poisioning is high partial pressures of O2. CO poisioning is such a big deal at depth because we are already breathing high partial pressures of O2 so by the time you start suffering mild-moderate symptoms at depth, your symptoms will be much more pronounced as the partial pressure of oxygen in your lungs decreases as you surface.

[TONY CHANEY]

Plus, CO in layman's terms makes it difficult for blood to transport oxygen. The symptoms of CO poisoning are a direct result of not being able to transport oxygen to the vital organs. That is why the treatment for CO poisioning is high partial pressures of O2. CO poisioning is such a big deal at depth because we are already breathing high partial pressures of O2 so by the time you start suffering mild-moderate symptoms at depth, your symptoms will be much more pronounced as the partial pressure of oxygen in your lungs decreases as you surface.

Not wanting to come off as someone wanting to argue but I am not too sure about your above post. See, I hear alot of divers thinking that the ppO2 is higher at depth. It is but so is the ppCO. The problem with CO2 is that the hemoglobin carbon monoxide toxicity arises from the formation of carboxyhemoglobin, which decreases the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood and inhibits the transport, delivery, and utilization of oxygen by the body. The affinity between hemoglobin and carbon monoxide is approximately 230 times stronger than the affinity between hemoglobin and oxygen so hemoglobin binds to carbon monoxide in preference to oxygen. So simply you really can't get the oxygen to bind as much as needed. It really depends on the ppm of the CO in what you are breathing from. Hopefully as you ascend you jump on a higher O2 content as your planned deco.

[floridakid]

You have a valid point that in a contaminated gas that ppCO is also increased with depth just like the ppO2. You are also probably accurate that the increased ppCO would negate some of the benifits of the elevated ppO2. But I think it is important to point out that our bodies do not respond to concentrations of gas, but partial pressures. The increased ppCO would cause hemoglobin to bind to CO at a faster rate which would ultimately make it difficult for O2 to bind. Once you reached the threshold to where you started to experience symptoms of tissue hypoxia and started to ascend, the CO remains bound to the hemaglobin but your ppO2 drops and tissue hypoxia gets worse. If you were able to switch to a richer deco gas that was not contaminated you would have a lot better chance, but you are still in a world of trouble.

I think the important thing to take from this CO rabbit trail is that CO poisioning is bad on land and is even worse in the water, but CO poisioning in the water is almost completly preventable and prevention is by far the best treatment for CO poisioning at depth.