I can't help but think of Joe and Yessic

[jj1987]

A few years ago, it came up in conversation at the Halloween NACD social that we thought these two were going to get themselves killed soon. A few weeks later, they were both dead in a classic cave diving accident. One of them even got a concerned phone call from his instructor asking him if the rumors were true. I'm starting to see history about to repeat it's self.

As a cave diver, what do you do when you see warning signs all over? Should we all wait like we did before? Should we ask dive shops to stop filling individuals tanks? Should the instructors ask the agency to nullify their certification cards, even if it's just for show to get the persons attention?

We all talk about self policing when we want a new site open. I'm not seeing it-- what do we REALLY do when we see an accident in the near future?

[JamesK]

Have you spoke to the individual you are concerned about?

[a64pilot]

I don't know but I believe I know of what you speak. A problem may be this is what he wants, this may be what feeds his Ego?
As I understand it there are no cave police, what can be done?
I would hope that anyone would take heed of their peers opinion, I know I have tried to be conservative, move slowly, not because I don't think I am able to do more, but to not be ostracized, I don't want to be thought of as that "nut".
Maybe he will read this and think that maybe he should back off, not because of his abilities, but because surely he doesn't want to be though of as that "nut".
I want people to want to dive with me because I'm easy to dive with and be though of as that guy who is good at it, and doesn't make mistakes, especially judgement ones.
I'm afraid though that someone is trying to feed their ego. I just hope they get scared straight in time to not have to pay too high a price, or failing that maybe will back off so that he won't have a hard time finding dive buddies?

[reiterman]

Some people are not going to take your advice. So, where does that leave us? What options do we really have? Has any agency ever pulled a non professional card?Some people are going to do what they want, it does not matter what anyone else thinks. Also, to play devil's advocate, who decide's, who is pushing it too far, too fast?

David

[Kevin Carlisle]

Unfortunately several have talked to this guy. He is a nice guy with a bright future if he survives but that doesn't look promising. Its a shame too. Nothing down there is worth dying for. It only puts others at risk when they do die and another black mark on the community as a whole.

I want to hear about their abilities when these guys have their big oh s#%t moment and survive it. They dont realize that things change in that moment. Its easy to be confident when things are going ok.

[amphipod06]

......

[JahJahwarrior]

Joe and Yessic and Agnes were all friends. I have some of Joes equipment in my garage, yessic's name on my nitrox card, and my sidemount diving was inspired by Agnes.

It has changed my mindset, and I was further shaped by mentors, rich, Cindy and Alan. I'm more and more convinced that the old method of cave training involving extensive mentor ship is better.

[Tegg]

I'm more and more convinced that the old method of cave training involving extensive mentor ship is better.

Nothing could be more true in this thread.

[FW]

Nothing could be more true in this thread.

Now this is even more amusing, coming from one of the earlier "too far too fast" divers

I have to admit Joe survived his earlier bold dives, and has turned out to be a good diver. Actually, the same is true of JahJah and James.

My mother used to say, "it is amazing that any kid lives to be 21". Maybe that age should be raised a little these days

[Tegg]

Now this is even more amusing, coming from one of the earlier "too far too fast" divers

I have to admit Joe survived his earlier bold dives, and has turned out to be a good diver.

"Back in the day", when I was coming along, I was doing a lot of diving with a lot of explorers and got a lot of useful first hand information. I accomplished a lot of diving in different environments in a short time, true, but they were all with people that knew where I was in my cavediving skills and ability and they helped me understand how to "know my bubble". That skill is the most important skill to learn and it is not learned by diving gold line with like divers.

Mentoring is the BEST way to learn after instruction if one wants to be a "well rounded" and safe cavediver.

Some people don't have a bubble, it's those people that have to watch out... If someone tells me that "nothing scares them" in cave diving, I won't dive with them.