cavern and intro all at once?

[bigblock119]

I am going to take the cavern course in the next year and in my research for places to take the course I noticed that many of the shops offer cavern and intro together. With the fact that I live in new york and only get to florida about 2 or 3 times at most a year to me this seems like a good alternative to get 2 certs in one trip. Is this a generally accepted way to get the 2 certs or is this not a good way to take on cave diving?

[DA Aquamaster]

It's a common way to get into cave diving.

After your intro cert, putting in 50 cave dives or so to consolidate your skills and refine the techniques you learned before doing cave/full cave is also a common way to advance beyond the intro level.

[Bobby]

It really depends on your experience and who you are diving with. For an example my better half took Cavern & Intro at the same time. Another person was in her class doing the same thing. I had been working with her for over a year to help her prepare her skills and mentally and she got through both classes. The other person was actually a little cocky coming into the classes but bailed on the second to last dive and never came back. Cave diving might not have been right for him or he might have taken on too much at one time, I don't know.

If you know a few cave divers in your area that you can do local dives with and work on skills that would help.

[Slüdge]

Listen to Bobby. Everybody's different, and the more experienced AND HUMBLE you are, the better.

[DA Aquamaster]

It doesn't really matter....

It's training, not a guarantee of a cert. given your distance from cave country, sign up for both cavern and Intro and then see how it goes. There are three basic possibilities:

1. If you don't pass cavern, you won't advance to Intro but you'll still learn new skills and learn what more you need to learn or work on to advance.

2. Even if you pass Cavern, the instructor may not feel you are ready for intro, and you'll spend the rest of your trip diving at the cavern level, and will still know what you need to learn or improve in order to advance.

3. If you pass cavern and advance to intro, you may or may not pass intro, but you'll still learn new things and develop an understanding of what you need to learn, refine or master to pass intro and/or advance to full cave training.

It's a no lose situation regardless of how it develops. Linking yourself up front to cavern only arbitrarily imposes an upper limit that may or may not be commensurate with your potential.

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What is more frequently debated is when to advance from Intro/basic cave to Cave/full cave. Zero to hero is right for a few divers but is controversial and almost no one argues that 50-100 dives between Intro and Cave is a bad idea.

[RN]

I agree with DA, there's nothing to lose with signing up for both. You will at least come out of the class knowing what you need to work on.

What I will add is to make sure your trim and buoyancy are pretty good, especially when task loaded. If you can take on tasks and maintain your depth without breaking out of a horizontal trim, then you are likely ready for both classes. Oh, and be able to do that in doubles or sidemount. Intro is best taken with dual cylinders.

[LCF]

My husband and I did cavern and Intro together, and we had a third classmate. He did not advance to Intro, and in fact did not pass his cavern class. His issues were that he had not done what Rob recommended -- he hadn't, for example, done any mask-off work since his OW class. He was also using equipment that was new to him (first dives in doubles) which interfered with his ability to balance and hover, skills which are very much required for cavern diving.

If you have access to local diving -- even a pool -- you can work on developing the ability to sit still in the water and maintain that stillness while doing the basic skills -- mask flood and clear, mask remove and replace, regulator exchange, and simulated regulator donation. If you can go into cavern able to do those things comfortably, you will be way ahead of the game, and combining cavern and Intro will not be a big stretch. If you go into cavern with significant deficiencies in your basics, moving on to Intro may be a bit of a stretch.

[skip]

and don't forget it's supposed to be fun. difficult? yes. lots to remember and not enough time? yes. must be able to do skills at one level before being admitted to next level? yes. but you can always say, "hold on, this is it for me, I need to stay at this level, practicing these skills, before I'm ready to go further." and then enjoy practicing those skills until they run-off automatically.

My attitdue to this day for every class I take is that I go in knowing full well that I'll quit when it's not fun anymore. It's "my" class and I'll do what I want! I may lose the money I paid, and obviously not get a c-card, but at least I will know whether I like it or not.

skip

[TJDiver]

My husband and I did cavern and Intro together, and we had a third classmate. He did not advance to Intro, and in fact did not pass his cavern class. His issues were that he had not done what Rob recommended -- he hadn't, for example, done any mask-off work since his OW class. He was also using equipment that was new to him (first dives in doubles) which interfered with his ability to balance and hover, skills which are very much required for cavern diving.

If you have access to local diving -- even a pool -- you can work on developing the ability to sit still in the water and maintain that stillness while doing the basic skills -- mask flood and clear, mask remove and replace, regulator exchange, and simulated regulator donation. If you can go into cavern able to do those things comfortably, you will be way ahead of the game, and combining cavern and Intro will not be a big stretch. If you go into cavern with significant deficiencies in your basics, moving on to Intro may be a bit of a stretch.

This is excellent advice! One of my close buddies and I decided we were pursuing the tech route about the same time. We took drysuit class together...intro to tech...got into doubles...blah blah blah. When we decided we were going for Cavern/Intro, we spent probably three months hitting the local quarries almost every weekend, working on the basic skills LCF mentions. I remember one weekend in particular where we picked a visual reference point at the edge of a submerged training platform at maybe 25 ft. depth, and literally spent the entire dive staying on station (hovering) and doing S drills. We also practiced tying in with reels, running lines, and even blind line drills. There is a lot you can do in non-cave environments to prepare for Cavern/Intro...quarries, with all the odd shaped rocks for line drills, is an especially good option. I was fortunate to have a buddy with like goals, and the patience/willingness for such repetitive drilling. Good luck with your class!

[narcedoutscuba]

I live in upstate NY and I started diving doubles, running lines and doing diffident drills for about a year before I took my cavern and intro. The other person I was training with didn't even get thought the first dive. Its hard finding places to dive in NY during the winter but there out there just ask around.