Rebreathers ?

[Boru]

Is the technology really there yet? seems that a very high percentage of deaths lately have occoured on rebreathers...curious as to what the common denomitnator is other than the rebreather??

[RN]

Complacency.

[Boru]

My oc can have several failures before I die... I kinda like that I am trained to deal with several simultaneous failures and can most likely get out... just sayin'
I have actually experienced two failures on one dive, it wasn't much more than a blip... training kicked in and I exited safely (TG) after the fact it was a little scary.

[FW]

My oc can have several failures before I die... I kinda like that I am trained to deal with several simultaneous failures and can most likely get out... just sayin'
I have actually experienced two failures on one dive, it wasn't much more than a blip... training kicked in and I exited safely (TG) after the fact it was a little scary.

Your rebreather training SHOULD kick in as well, but like RN said some rebreather divers start to believe that it can't happen to them, then ZAP. Any time you get too complacent, in OC, or CC, you are asking for trouble.

[Squirrel Girl]

I haven't dived rebreathers in a few years, but complacency was our big fear, too. I used to always say, a rebreather will save you when nothing else will, and kill you faster than anything else can.

[jcook]

Complacency.

+1

People get too comfortable and rely too heavily on the electronics. Plus a lot of people don't mitigate the risks associated with diving a rebreather, like enough bailout. I still think everyone who dives a rebreather should breathe some CO2 (preferably on the surface) at some point, so you have an idea what it's like when you get a hit.

[FW]

+1

People get too comfortable and rely too heavily on the electronics. Plus a lot of people don't mitigate the risks associated with diving a rebreather, like enough bailout. I still think everyone who dives a rebreather should breathe some CO2 (preferably on the surface) at some point, so you have an idea what it's like when you get a hit.

I certainly agree about bailout, and you might learn something about CO2 as well, but there are problems there.

If you get a lot of CO2, especially suddenly, you have a lot of obvious symptoms. The problem is much worse, when there isn't much more that normal CO2, and comes on slowly. When that happens, you may not even notice any symptoms, and your judgement gets clouded.

Read this IRAP: http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...range-Symptoms

[Art Greenberg]

Complacency, yes. A somewhat more complex rig, so more things that can go wrong. During the dive, you need to be aware of the possibilities and monitor for them without fail. Add to that, a more complex pre-dive ritual that is vitally important.

I have just over 100 hours on CCR, and so far no issues. Its OK to be confident that the rig will continue to be reliable, but it is definitely necessary (but can be difficult) to stay vigilant. Discipline is key.

If you get a lot of CO2, especially suddenly, you have a lot of obvious symptoms. The problem is much worse, when there isn't much more that normal CO2, and comes on slowly. When that happens, you may not even notice any symptoms, and your judgement gets clouded.

I've spoken with a couple of CCR divers who have CO2 toxicity build slowly during a dive. It nearly killed them both. By the time they realized what was happening, they were virtually unable to switch to bailout - the rigs they were diving were not BOV equipped, and their breathing rate was so high that they could not pause long enough to switch to the OC regulator they were holding just inches away.

After hearing their stories, I don't understand why anyone would dive a CCR without a BOV. And of course a means to connect a large volume off-board gas supply to that BOV.

--
Art

[jkaterenchuk]

...curious as to what the common denomitnator is other than the rebreather??

You and several thousand rebreather divers would like to know that answer also. Unfortunately, in most cases the cause is not certain and the community defaults to blame the equipment and/or the diver. There have been a small number of rebreather deaths in which good analysis has been done and it has shown that the diver was complacent in some aspect of his predive checks, maintenance or decision skills to not dive. However, the vast majority cannot be simply explained.

Having been diving a rebreather for 5+ years extensively I would say we know alot about the mechanisms that can go wrong on a CCR and how to ensure we train, test and respond but IMHO there are some others which may be more physiological that we do not completely understand.

That being said there is still the human problem in which people know what they should do but decide not to do it. One example is predive check list. In my CCR diving career I see many more divers that do not complete a documented predive checklist then those that do. Many do a shortened list and do it from memory. Clearly this is against the training they were/should have been given and increases the possibility of a incident on a future dive which might have been caught predive.

John

[FW]

...I've spoken with a couple of CCR divers who have CO2 toxicity build slowly during a dive. It nearly killed them both. By the time they realized what was happening, they were virtually unable to switch to bailout - the rigs they were diving were not BOV equipped, and their breathing rate was so high that they could not pause long enough to switch to the OC regulator they were holding just inches away.

After hearing their stories, I don't understand why anyone would dive a CCR without a BOV. And of course a means to connect a large volume off-board gas supply to that BOV...

I don't use a BOV (Bail Out Valve), but I have been sidemount for many years, and switching regs underwater is second nature to me. I suspect it only because of that, I was able to bail, once I realized there was a rebreather problem.