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  1. #21

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    Source: http://www.divegearexpress.com/libra....shtmlCylinder

    Neck Threads and SCUBA Valves

    Valves attach to the neck of the SCUBA cylinder using one of two types of straight screw threads. Screw threads date back to the third century. For a few centuries everyone did their own thing regarding screw threads. As you might imagine, by the nineteenth century, interchangeability was non-existent. With the first World War, the American National thread form was established so that war materials could be more easily manufactured. With the second World War, the American National thread form had interchangeability problems with the Whitworth form of Great Britain. Thus the United States and Great Britain (and Canada) agreed upon a Unified thread form that would allow better interchangeability. The point of this history lesson is there are TWO different thread form standards.

    Still, the most common thread form used with SCUBA cylinders and valves is the American National Standard Free-Fitting Straight Mechanical Pipe Thread also known as NPS. The specific thread form used with most SCUBA cylinders is named 0.750-14 NPS, often referred to as "3/4 NPS."

    When Pressed Steel Tank Company began manufacturing the modern 3500 psi service pressure SCUBA cylinder, they elected to use a more modern thread form for the neck opening known as Unified National Standard Fine. The specific thread form used with the steel 3500 psi SCUBA cylinder is named 0.875-14 UNF, often referred to as "7/8 UNF."

    It's very important to understand that the 3/4 and 7/8 slang descriptions do NOT indicate relative sizes of the physical dimensions of the opening! This is because the two thread forms are from two different standards. The 3/4 NPS opening is visibly larger than the 7/8 UNF opening.

    Until recently, it worked as follows: "High-Pressure" steel SCUBA cylinders (i.e., 3500 psi, sometimes referred to as "Sherwood Genesis" cylinders... the brandname they were originally sold under) were manufactured with the smaller 7/8 UNF threaded openings, and all other steel and aluminum SCUBA Tanks were manufactured with larger 3/4 NPS threaded openings. Then in 2003, Pressed Steel Tank Company introduced their new high-pressure 3442 psi E-series cylinders, and they elected to revert to the 3/4 NPS threaded opening. This was followed by similar designs from Faber and Worthington. So now there are two different high-pressure steel SCUBA Tanks in wide use, the older 3500 psi cylinders with 7/8 UNF threaded opening and the newer 3442 psi cylinders with 3/4 NPS threaded opening.

    So how do you figure out what you have? Look at the SCUBA Tank neck for the DOT stamp. If it reads DOT-3AL or DOT-3AA it has a 3/4 NPS threaded neck opening. (3AL means aluminum, 3AA means steel.) If it reads DOT-Exxxx-3442 it's a steel cylinder, also with 3/4 NPS threaded opening. If it reads DOT-Exxxx-3500, it's a steel cylinder with a 7/8 UNF threaded opening. (The xxxx is a manufacturer specific four or five digit exemption number.) Another test, if the valve is out of the cylinder, is that a U.S. quarter coin will fit through the 3/4 NPS cylinder neck opening but will not fit through the 7/8 UNF opening. By the way, if it's not a SCUBA Tank, all bets are off; it will have some other neck opening threading which is incompatible with 3/4 NPS and 7/8 UNF.

    One important caution regarding thread compatibility. Outside the United States, particularly in Europe, a widely used SCUBA Tank neck thread form is known as M25. The 3/4 NPS and M25 threads are very similar but not identical; it's possible to inadvertently mate cylinders and valves with these two different forms. In an incident in Australia, when the cylinder and valve with mismatched threads was filled to working pressure, the different threads did not hold, causing them to separate with dangerously explosive force.
    Don't Tase me Bro!!!
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slüdge View Post
    jsalty, you realize the HP-80s are VERY small, right? A pair holds the same as a single LP-120.
    Thank you all for the replies. I think the HP-80s (X7-80) will be my best bet for now. I plan to keep the LP95's for when I need the gas or have the option to change out for side mount friendly tanks.

    Sludge, Yes, I am aware that the HP-80 are small = 80cuft @ 3442psig 19" tall and 28lbs empty. @ 3000psig they are close to 70cuft. Two of them would be 160cuft at 3442psig. A LP-120 at 3200psig is about 145cuft. The size is part of the allure for me.

  3. #23

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    Jsalty, I think I might have access to a set for sale. I can find out in the next few days. It's set up for doubles, with bolts, bands, isolator, etc.

  4. #24
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    I just read the page two (missed it). I am 6'3" 220lbs. My back surgery did not repair the issue L5 & L4 are mostly gone by way of any disk material. It hurts to walk with one 95 on my back let alone two.. When I have gone two I have had my gear taken to the water for me (feel like charity case at that time). HP100's (3442) save me 4 pounds each but the 80's save 10 pounds each.

    Think the 19" is a big deal? if so I must go for the 100's then why if I only save 4 pounds (8 pounds doubled)...

    Thanks again everyone. This has been great discussion for me. Glad I found this site.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slüdge View Post
    jsalty, you realize the HP-80s are VERY small, right? A pair holds the same as a single LP-120.
    And unless you're a midget they're really difficult to trim out IMO.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slüdge View Post
    HPs take an oddball valve or manifold. I'm waiting for the day when they'll all be relegated to scrapyard.
    I will dispose of them for free.

  7. #27

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    LP85's are still an option. Odd diameter with the 7inch instead of 7.25, but 26 inches long, so not short as all get.
    31lbs each instead of the HP80 28lbs, but 6 lbs is nothing... The 19 inch bottles with the inability to sit could be a big problem

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsalty View Post
    I am 6'3" 220lbs.
    It hurts to walk with one 95 on my back let alone two.. When I have gone two I have had my gear taken to the water for me (feel like charity case at that time).
    Honestly - HP80s would be a big big mistake for someone your size. Like said you would not even be able to don sitting down. They are so short once you pull the harness on you'd need to carry the weight the whole time because the tanks are so short. All that added time is terrible for back and then you have to yank it up (about the worst part for my back) when you are already strained. Fighting to trim in water will strain your torso and back muscles further.

    I know how you feel, big singles are still an issue for me too especially on rough terrain or pitching boat and ladders. Sidemount has really been a big help. Even with that I am a charity case just like you if it's multidive/day gig because I am barely out of that one-year increased re-injury zone that I am trying to clear. Also if arching in water with doubles strains your lower back like it did to mine, there is another added bonus to the position that SM offers. Try to hook up with someone to try it out and save your money and back. There are some things on the spine that just aren't worth getting into any worse shape.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by alias View Post
    Honestly - HP80s would be a big big mistake for someone your size. Like said you would not even be able to don sitting down. They are so short once you pull the harness on you'd need to carry the weight the whole time because the tanks are so short. All that added time is terrible for back and then you have to yank it up (about the worst part for my back) when you are already strained. Fighting to trim in water will strain your torso and back muscles further.

    I know how you feel, big singles are still an issue for me too especially on rough terrain or pitching boat and ladders. Sidemount has really been a big help. Even with that I am a charity case just like you if it's multidive/day gig because I am barely out of that one-year increased re-injury zone that I am trying to clear. Also if arching in water with doubles strains your lower back like it did to mine, there is another added bonus to the position that SM offers. Try to hook up with someone to try it out and save your money and back. There are some things on the spine that just aren't worth getting into any worse shape.
    I have taken all this excellent feedback and advice under careful consideration. I have decided not to go the HP80 route. Going to keep my LP95's separated with H-Valves. less time but still diving and if I have to get a little help to the water so be it for now.
    I do want to discuss side mount, modification needed to be made to my Transpack or do I still use the backplate. Need to research the side mount some.. I am not completely hip to it.

  10. #30
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    jsalty, if you sidemount, Faber 51s with a cave fill hold almost as much as HP-80s.
    Whoever said money can't buy love never bought a puppy.


 

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