Survey Data and technique

[CaveBuddy95]

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Once you have your data crunched- you can replot your data on the backside of the page (picture 2) and then on your next dive, draw in the walls, floor and wall details and whatever else as necessary. This is where being able to identify your previous stations becomes so important.

If you have more questions, drop me a line (rchrds.caver@gmail.com) or come on up to the CDS convention and take either Mike Poucher's survey class (more appropriate to your level) or mine, and learn how to make finished digital maps!

Jason Richards

Thanks Jason, that is great added bonus you gave here! I plan to spend maybe 2 or 3 dives surveying and taking details of the cave to "try" and draw a map. So far it's safe practice with a Al80 and a buddy to coordinates datas.
The course available here in Mex are very good ( heard off) so it is in the pipeline. At my stage its maybe more to "learn" the cave more in detail than to actually do a real survey. I am not exploring yet (yes, I said "yet"!!)
Thanks for your pics as well, it helps.

If the line is knotted at regular intervals, just count knots between stations, then get a bearing and depth on each station and continue on like that, if for example there is less distance between two knots before getting to a station or after you can measure your forearm and use that to measure the missing piece and add the distance to the counted knots (usually 10ft apart).

You can swim to your planed turn around and then just start surveying out, for a complex cave or big cave you need to have station markers on each station and if there are more than one line each line needs a name and then a station number.
That way all the lines can be compiled together on one map, and each ine has it's own set of station markers.

If it's a single line simple cave that is walled out you can simply swim to the end of the line and then survey out, however you still would be better of with fixed numbers station markers so as not to get confused as to what station is what on future surveys.

I am no expert on making maps but it is not as difficult to make relatively precise maps as one would think.

In Compass if you get a GPS lock on station 0 (outside) then you can place the cave on a Google map which is really cool to see were it is going and maybe connect to other caves etc..

Thanks Phil, appreciate your help.
As I said to Jason, I am not exploring yet so it is not that complex for me yet but as you know, caves in Mex are full of opportunities on the waiting!!
Thanks again

Be very careful here, if you swim to thirds and survey going out, you are using some of your reserve gas to survey. We have lost two famous survey divers doing that. If your planed turnaround is less than thirds, then you are probably OK.

I can imagine the task loading on such a dive and that's why I am planning 2 or more dives to survey the line and 2 or more to "draw" the cave.
I'm doing this into a short passage with some flow pushing out for the return ticket so should be well withing safety. Still bring Al with me!!
Thanks FW

Will keep you posted on how it goes.
Thanks again and if you have anything to ad, please do not hesitate one bit!!

Saludos,

[rchrds]

Jason...I have one of your custom designed sheets from www.riteintherain.com on my desk now -- THANK YOU! I am actually planning on ordering more this week.

Jason's sheet is designated R-168. If you contact www.riteintherain.com / 253.922.5000 you can order them as well.

Deepsea- order the new one- it is R-237, this has a depth box in place of the vertical angle, and it is aligned with the station number rather than offset like the one you have. Same price.

Jason

[aainslie]

Deepsea- order the new one- it is R-237, this has a depth box in place of the vertical angle, and it is aligned with the station number rather than offset like the one you have. Same price.

Jason

More kudos for jason's paper - it rocks!

[phillip1]

Originally Posted by phillip1
You can swim to your planed turn around and then just start surveying out ......

Be very careful here, if you swim to thirds and survey going out, you are using some of your reserve gas to survey. We have lost two famous survey divers doing that. If your planed turnaround is less than thirds, then you are probably OK.

Actually I explained that wrong, I always turn before thirds and if I plan on surveying out I will turn even sooner to account for the extra time surveying, I keep a very close eye on gas/time to make sure I always have more than enough gas.
I almost always survey on a future dive as most of the explo dives end up being bad to zero viz exits and you can't really see what you are writing and ends up being a hassle + I think it is safer to be more familiar with the cave when surveying too.

I agree 100% with you that you need to plan on extra gas for the survey as you will loose time on the way out.

I think it is better to explore and then on a subsequent dive survey.

[Neptuno]

I think is cool at least to take quick data on the way out, we got our big cave as an example, we had a totally wrong guess of where the cave was going and the length, etc, I did a really quick survey on the way out, only counting knots and taking bearings(depths don't change much), took me almost no time to do, and if I hadn't now several months later we would still don't know more or less where it goes because we haven't be able to go back yet since is a little complex dive in the length it has already, not counting middle of jungle, carry many tanks, very long dive, etc, etc.

[cavediver256]

Great info guys !!!! Thanks !!!!

[CaveBuddy95]

It is indeed a lot of great info.
Thanks to you all, I've already prepared my slates and putting things on the plan with my buddy.

As for the software, do you guys have any preference?

Thanks

[rchrds]

It is indeed a lot of great info.
Thanks to you all, I've already prepared my slates and putting things on the plan with my buddy.

As for the software, do you guys have any preference?

Thanks

Ahh- the question of the year. I prefer walls, for a couple of reasons that others may not find useful. I first turned to Walls because it was the only program that could link different types of survey data, i.e. from a dry cave survey to an underwater survey in the same program with vastly different types of data. From what I understand, Walls is still the only one that can do this. The other reason I use walls is for the round-tripping, which allows me to survey a section of the cave, export it to Illustrator, draw the cave, and then later on, survey more of the cave, export it again to illustrator, and Walls will have adjusted my earlier drawing to close loops and correct errors. In this fashion I can survey many caves a piece at a time and continuously update them as I add new data, instead of waiting until it is complete to start the drawing.

I understand that compass may have recently incorporated some method of round-tripping, though I personally have not used it yet.

You will find that this sort of use is not very common- this is a relatively new technique, and there are very few people using this, because it is a little difficult to work around. Once learned, however, it is a very nice process that allows you to draw at the pace of your exploration.

Jason

[CaveBuddy95]

Thanks Richard,
I will take a look at Walls. It is great thing to have access to such software!